Author Topic: Our Fatal Flaw (Read 2180 times)

K2 · « **on:** February 28, 2012, 03:58:51 PM »

Kay, so, we're loosing members, and it's not just because of the strictness of our requests. Many members have pointed out to me that the roleplay is no longer character-based enough. I remember being praised in the past for helping to create a system which members help adapt the plot/lore of through character interaction, instead of being like most roleplays where generic staff plots control everything. We need to lessen the focus on war and increase the focus on characterization.

King Jeebus · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:01:24 PM »

The issue with that is that we have an established and long standing lore. It has become intimidating. I tried getting two different people into SP who both left after looking at the lore because it was just too much work to learn enough about the universe.

K2 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:08:21 PM »

Actually, I agree with you, this is becoming a very, very big problem, it's almost at the point where a reboot is needed.

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:11:17 PM »

Quote from: Mortape123 on February 28, 2012, 03:58:51 PM

Kay, so, we're loosing members, and it's not just because of the strictness of our requests. Many members have pointed out to me that the roleplay is no longer character-based enough. I remember being praised in the past for helping to create a system which members help adapt the plot/lore of through character interaction, instead of being like most roleplays where generic staff plots control everything. We need to lessen the focus on war and increase the focus on characterization.

Wtf do you all think I've been trying to do?

K2 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:14:08 PM »

Well, we certainly have the resources here that others do not. Evident to this is the fact that we are sort of a central community, and while smaller forums branch out from us, they end up dying due to lack of resources that we have, despite the fact that they have less complex story, more character interaction, and better organization.

King Jeebus · « **Reply #5 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:16:52 PM »

The main line seems to be that SP will likely NOT grow in memberbase unless we do something drastic to the plot which would mean a reboot which certain members(Hikaru mostly) Would not be okay with.
So really we've gotta choose what we want to do here. We can perpetually just stick with what we have until everyone loses interest, find a way to make the plot not important(Impossible really), reboot or just do something new.
We need to face the current state of SP will merely just scare people away.

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #6 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:20:20 PM »

How about limitations on warmongering, like introducing a war econmy, or having more events that focus on character interactions (P3C...)

K2 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:21:56 PM »

The fact is I am losing interest myself due to the complexity. The fact that we still have staff and members tells me that everyone still wants to RP, so that's good. Which gives us options.

As you said, we can end the RP gracefully, perhaps start a new one up in it's place.

We can reboot the plot, perhaps back to the Era Village or Genesis Kingdom, eliminate complexities like Ingrounded, dimensions, etc, and outline the basic elements that make the RP good, and stick to those.

Or we can do something else drastic, but what that would be escapes me.

Anything else will uncertainly lead to the death of this RP.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:23:53 PM »

If you reboot it you lose what SP is. What's there to reboot? Starting anew? SP isn't just an RP it's a story. You don't just tear out all the pages of a book even a collaborative one and start writing new ones. Sure it's complex then we can just work on getting more character interaction and putting some rule on takeovers.

It's war because it's made that way but you forget that's what it's ALWAYS been. That's what it was STARTED on. Takeovers and feuds for a few measly country named forums on CLTCG. How can we lessen what the RP itself was founded on when that's the core of it?
There can be interaction in war if the RPers are good enough to make some. Right now it's because with planet NPCs and such no one bothers to RP out their culture and their NPCs, no one bothers to further their characters EXCEPT make them tools of War.

Sure we have Cap going out and causing wars, he 3-day rules it when no one posts (which there should be a limit to) but I don't exactly see the people he's going after trying to interact or NPC the culture during that attack. Do you honestly think all NPC civilians would just say nothing? No! They'd be screaming and running for their lives, a few brave ones here and there, mass panic, mass attempts at negotiations. It's not the fact the RP is more warlike that's the problem, it's the roleplayers that don't know how to take that war and turn it into a full blown story that is.

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:26:50 PM »

We cant force members to adapt... We can only adapt to them. K2323 has the right idea.

K2 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:30:02 PM »

The point is, there has to be a change in the fundamentals of the roleplay itself. Jeebus is right, we're not getting any new members, because nobody wants to join a roleplay where the lore is fifty pages long. Yes, it's wonderful that we created that, and it's a great story, but we can't continue on without changing fundamentals, and if that means a reboot, so be it. I realize that will completely renew the story's fundamental elements, but it may be our only sensible choice.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:32:42 PM »

To reboot? Hell no! AGAIN you take away what the RP truly is. You take out the compexities, reboot the story? It's no longer SP anymore. It's some rip off forum or sub attempt like Cosmic and all of Hawk's fails. Sure it's complex, it may scare members. But the complexities are the advanced aspects.

You don't want to scare them away? Do I what I suggested before. A Startup Guide, explain the basics of getting started, making an empire or requesting someone to join their empire, creating a character, creating a race (optional) going about creating tech. A simpler form of my guide for what magic is. (The guide but simplified) to show them options of how magic works in the RP (like how to magic battle) ending with what takeovers and a little explanation about the area (dimensions/realms) are and their options of RPing (SP has always been free-for-all, interaction, development, takeovers, etc.)

I don't see why we can't just do that and be more explainative to new members with putting the advanced stuff for members that WANT to get into it than to completely destroy what we've worked 6 years on just because you want to reboot.

King Jeebus · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:36:47 PM »

Honestly I would be happy perpetually doing this until everyones bored and let it just sort of float on.
Anything drastic as Hikaru said would ruin SP, a reboot could technically work but it would have to not be anywhere near as exact.
And Hikaru, you're right. SP doesnt work as an RP anymore. It is a story.
The prime issue here is that it has become a story with a set amount of writers and its impossible for anyone to bring in their own concepts because much of it will break the 50 page lore they have to read.
We have to choose now if we want to bring in new members and keep it all going or keep the integrity of the old stuff and accept that we will not be getting new members and eventually, be it a year or 5, SP will die.

K2 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:39:09 PM »

Look, I know it's drastic, but the facts tell us that we really can't continue just making new guides and the like. There's still ways to express the story as it has been told, but to do that we need a finished product, and to redirect our productivity. We can't continue to keep our heads in the sand like we've done for the last six months, the Plex event was kinda the last spark of the RP under the current system.

We can save the community, but we have to act now before it's too late.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #14 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:39:56 PM »

Or we can simplify things for people. Sure it's 50 pages, but it doesn't have to be if you only put in key points.

Also.. I want to continue on, be it selfish maybe. But I like my characters, I like their story. I want to continue their story. If we reboot? Most of them won't exist, and their stories will just be dropped, to never be finished and always left hanging. I'm pretty sure I'm NOT the only one that doesn't want that to happen. I know Nisorin had specific endings he wanted to play his characters to.

What's wrong with a startup guide? It will HELP members. I'm not saying a complex guide. I'm saying one that's visual and helpful that some other RPs also have. I've seen it on forums and it helps A LOT for getting people into it.

K2 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:48:41 PM »

Look, obviously I am a huge fan of this entire story, and would love to do that, and maybe it would help a little, but not enough. The members are getting tired of this story, and that's understandable, it's six years old. The best course of action from here would be to end it in a way that allows our characters to continue but gives them and us some resolution, and then start anew.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #16 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:51:23 PM »

Then if they're sick of it, let them leave and we get more people. Why can't we just at least try the guide? Why does it have to be the most drastic ultimatum you can think of? If we've gone this long with just trying to hang in there I don't see why we can't try the guide solution and see what happens before nuking all that we've worked for.

@Pokemon Master Red · « **Reply #17 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:52:30 PM »

I...Can't say I agree with a reboot. I haven't been here the full six years, but even I, and a lot of the other members, have a lot already on SP. I can't stand reboots because it means everything you have, all that's been accomplished...Its forfeit. All that time on the characters, developing their hopes, dreams, all of it is gone. That's also why I dislike actual all-out wars that wipe out factions...All the work put in is gone, might as well never have been. A reboot? At least for some of us, myself included, not much is gonna tie us to SP and we'll probably drift away.

All the same, Hik, its not the character interaction people care about during the attack. Their first and only thought, especially in one-world empires, is "Holy fuck my race and characters and planet I spent so much time on is going to die, fuckfuckfuckfuckFUCK". And admittedly, the effect is, like, tripled when Cap attacks because he makes no effort to hold back. THAT'S what's driving our existing members away, and L-Rage has a point-If we want to keep everyone who's here, we might need to make war at least less desirable.

As for the Lore...Maybe just have it stop affecting the present? Many of us hate how the current plot is oh-so centered on the Staff's characters. I know K2's tried to help the rest of the members get in on it, but it honestly hasn't worked in the eyes of a lot of us. If we can make the main plot cut off from most of the current Lore, and have it play a lot less of a part(but not none), that may well help.

K2 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:54:37 PM »

Because I don't want the community to die. We've got to choose between rather we want both the RP and Community to die or just the RP. And even then, do you really want the last six years of work to end without grace cause everyone got bored, or do you want it to end on your terms, with a chance for things to resolve? I understand what you're saying about this guide, but it doesn't change the fact that we've got way too many problems with the way things work now.

King Jeebus · « **Reply #19 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:55:08 PM »

Red brings up a very good point. It is primarily countered however by the fact that pretty much all of the members ARE the staff.

K2 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:58:14 PM »

Poll added.

@Pokemon Master Red · « **Reply #21 on:** February 28, 2012, 04:59:46 PM »

-_-
You know what I mean, Jeebus. Hik. K2. Lesse, used to be Nis but not prominent anymore. Gaser, when he was on. Even you, Jeebus. Zak, Orga, I believe UnStellar, they're all pretty mad that they see no way INTO the main story except as supporting, maybe not even that much, cast. THAT'S what I meant.

@Pokemon Master Red · « **Reply #22 on:** February 28, 2012, 05:03:14 PM »

*to clarify, everyone before I mentioned Zak are the ones most of the normal memberbase I'm in regular contact with perceive as the 'main characters', and everyone else not.

K2 · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2012, 05:04:12 PM »

Hiro, that stems back to the whole our-plot-is-too-complicated issue. Staff are the only ones who know the plot, cause we wrote it, anyone else is gonna say it's too complex and doesn't know where to get involved. Nobody knows the lore, so half the time nobody knows what's going on. Even the staff have different visions about what's going on.

@Pokemon Master Red · « **Reply #24 on:** February 28, 2012, 05:06:17 PM »

Yes, and I know that's a problem. Like I suggested, maybe we should just make the Lore stay as backstory and build a new plot, but on the same board. Make the Lore matter less to what goes on now.