Staff, Reforms, and Mass Bitching

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Me and Orph never been that great of friends, but I would have to agree with him on this. Hikaru has no right to modify what isn't her creation or use it without his permission. On top of that if she truly stole those characters thats even worse. If we did that we would be banned so how is this fair?

Logan, when has anything involving Hikaru ever really been fair?

[Logan]

Me and Orph never been that great of friends, but I would have to agree with him on this. Hikaru has no right to modify what isn't her creation or use it without his permission. On top of that if she truly stole those characters thats even worse. If we did that we would be banned so how is this fair?

Logan, when has anything involving Hikaru ever really been fair?

Good god I feel a rant coming on. I once again have no personal problems with Hikaru but why the hell does she get special treatment? When she threaten to ban Hawkeye just because he wasn't going to post in a topic all she got was a slap on the wrist. If I would have done it I would of got de-admin and banned. She steals characters apparently, if we would have done it we would have been banned. She works her characters in to be the strongest ever, yet if we tried to we are denied. Why the special treatment? Someone on the staff answer me that.

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Look, Hik, where I come in is where I feel that something is happening that isn't fair, right, or I just don't like. My post that doesn't have anyting to do with topic at hand was in response to Logan.

(paraprasing)
Logan: What would happen if we stole other people's characters? We'd get banned.
Me: Since when is anything involving Hikaru fair?

I said that because you, more often then not in my experience, get your way or you work your way into some sort of advantage. I dont have anything against you personally but you are not known for your reasonability when it comes to these matters. If I need evidence I point to the time I won an argument regarding the 'theft' of a technique, had the other staff on my side, and you shut down the site until I apologized for it. Then the topic was deleted, if I remember correctly but that may not be the case. Just saying, but there are plenty of times where you've done something drastic and used that as leverage.

As for backseat modding, just putting your two cents into a conversation isnt a staff-only right, nor should it ever be.

[Ragnar the Red]

As for backseat modding, just putting your two cents into a conversation isnt a staff-only right, nor should it ever be.

At this point because of how you've thrown around the term, I am convinced backseat modding is in no way a bad thing. Seriously, you told me to stop backseat modding on my own topic. There is nothing wrong with speaking for yourself, and at this point I am convinced it is only an accusation to try and gain leverage or a lazy staff member who doesn't want to have to think.

[Queen Bright]

As for backseat modding, just putting your two cents into a conversation isnt a staff-only right, nor should it ever be.

At this point because of how you've thrown around the term, I am convinced backseat modding is in no way a bad thing. Seriously, you told me to stop backseat modding on my own topic. There is nothing wrong with speaking for yourself, and at this point I am convinced it is only an accusation to try and gain leverage or a lazy staff member who doesn't want to have to think.

I feel this needs to be said because apparently our members just don't get it. Have you EVER been on larger RP forums? Or hell, it doesn't even have to be RP. Game forums, tech forums, general spamming forumgs, whatever it may be! I'll tell you the rules are way FUCKING harsher than here. Backseat modding? Banned maybe just suspended, but also told off. Arguing with a staff member? Locked and suspended.  Complaining? Told to deal with it. The argument this topic is giving out? Back at Lyoko's post it'd have been locked and discussion ended with the whole "Orph lost it all."

Now either I suggest you stop fucking complaining and trying to take a mile when given an inch. Those forums don't lose their members either, the members just shut up and deal with it. Go to other forums and pull the bullshit you're pulling. You won't last a damn week.

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Hik, its always been this way on SP. Thats why we stay on SP. I dont give a shit about what other forums are doing. If they want to do that then fine, but they probably have more members so they count for less. SP cant afford to be as harsh because its only got a few members.

[Queen Bright]

We can afford to say fuck off when you backseat mod. It doesn't help topics, it just adds more flaming, more arguing, and more bitching. Honestly, I'd say that should warrant a warn. We're being lenient not doing so. But seriously, stop.

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

It can help topics! As I recall, Hiro was added to the staff because he was so good at backseat modding and being an arbitrator. Having someone new put in their own thoughts and opinions can help shed light onto a topic, open up a different viewpoint, expose error where it is seen and even, yes, stop the 'bitching'.

[Ragnar the Red]

I get that there's a time and a place when backseat modding is a bad thing (like when someone repeats something a staffmember had already said), but here it never reaches that. Someone pulls out a legitimate thing that wasn't brought up at all, and what happens? He's yelled at for backseat modding.

[Queen Bright]

It can help topics! As I recall, Hiro was added to the staff because he was so good at backseat modding and being an arbitrator. Having someone new put in their own thoughts and opinions can help shed light onto a topic, open up a different viewpoint, expose error where it is seen and even, yes, stop the 'bitching'.

There's a difference between helping topics with useful information and bitching at people or agreeing at someone else bitching. There's a difference between giving help and flaming.

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Yes, yes there is. However, as far as I've seen, it is mostly the benevolent kind. There are times that people have 'backseat modded' but thats happened with the staff too.

[Admiral Regis Hermitage]

Nik, Zack. Stop arguing with her. If there are problems with Hikaru, they will be dealt with by STAFF. End of the argument gentlemen... That is your last warning.

[Logan]

Nik, Zack. Stop arguing with her. If there are problems with Hikaru, they will be dealt with by STAFF. End of the argument gentlemen... That is your last warning.

I disagree with the ending of the argument. I will admit one thing. The reason while SP works so well is that we are able to take our problems out in the open and actually deal with them. A good board is one where the members do get say in what goes on but don't get too much. There is simply a line that shouldn't be crossed when it comes too complaining about another member's wrong doings, but Hikaru isn't another member. She is a staff member. Everything she does greatly affects us. So if Zack and Nik have a problem with her about how she is fulfilling her duties they should bring it to light for everyone to see. Though I agree that this isn't the time and place for it. They should in turn make a topic to focus on their problem.

To comment Hikaru's comment on other boards not allowing this, that is why they die. Because all the problems are bottled up and kept off the forum until someone gets pissed off and a whole war begins that drives everyone away. I believe if I remember correctly that CLTCG saw something like that at some point. But after that CLTCG want more public. Because of that it lasted til K2 and Hikaru (Or who ever it was) brought it down.

As for you Nik and Zack, as friend to friend I will say you should pick your battles more carefully. If you guys want to win any change you need to understand that there is a time to stand up and speak and a time to sit down and be quiet. It won't do you any good if you got banned, in fact it would weaken your cause.

Good god I feel a rant coming on. I once again have no personal problems with Hikaru but why the hell does she get special treatment? When she threaten to ban Hawkeye just because he wasn't going to post in a topic all she got was a slap on the wrist. If I would have done it I would of got de-admin and banned. She steals characters apparently, if we would have done it we would have been banned. She works her characters in to be the strongest ever, yet if we tried to we are denied. Why the special treatment? Someone on the staff answer me that.

I don't even want to get into answering this as it should be obvious and I've explained it before, but whatever.
The threat was a god damn empty threat as a joke. I didn't ban him, nor did I plan to. It was just a "Wonder if he'd hurry up if I said that." And by now? Hawkeye should have know that. I wouldn't have said it to anyone else as they'd take it seriously. But Hawkeye by now would even know it was just for reaction. Plus I knew he wasn't really busy and it was more of just a scare for again, reaction.

Had I done it and actually serious? Um yeah I'd have been fucking de-adminned and probably suspended a while.

I DID NOT steal the characters. And AGAIN you shouldn't even be fucking commenting on that with just one testimony. God, it's like a match at grade school. One person says someone did something, all the kids take their side just because they can. Fucking retarded.

It doesn't matter if you were serious or not. As you pointed on a bigger forum backseat modding is punishable offense, but threats, even if empty is bigger deal then backseat modding. I don't take this a funny joke. Neither did Hawkeye who was freaking out about this. The rest is serious problems. I get now you are simply bragging about your character and I respect you for taking pride in it. But you make it sound like it is goddly powerful. That can be taken the wrong way. I don't really even care about the character to be honest. I was mad when I typed it. Though it is true if we tried to come up with a powerful character you are the first to deny. I also think that perhaps you may have not stolen Orph's characters but in turn what really gives you control over them? I don't think you are the default proxy for everyone unless said otherwise, so why did you get the characters? I think your problem with the characters can be worked out though. Simply consult with him. Understand Destruction better by its creator. If you do perhaps there won't be a problem.

As a note we didn't all jump to his side because he said you did it. I personally have seen you at your worst and you stealing a character isn't even to beginning to be you at your worst. So I could see you actually doing this. To what gains, I have no idea but I don't put this kind of thing past you. And if you have a problem with how bad I think of you prove me wrong. Change.

I'm sad about what happened with Gaserlake but it perhaps opened a door for you. It shows you can care about others to a higher degree and for that I think it gives you promise. It shows you have the ability to change and perhaps be the bigger person

Also Lyoko, careful on what measure you take. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job but the whole point they are coming out and fighting now is because they can't turn to the staff to solve this problem. In the past we have seen that the staff hasn't been able to deal with the problem. K2 is a great admin but whenever there is a problem with Hikaru he says he'll talk to her about it. That is as far as that goes. Jeebus (unless it is a serious matter) will send you to K2 who will in turn repeat his steps. If you want to Hikaru for problems about Hikaru then in turn you would pretty much be an idiot. And finally you and Hiro are mods so you really can't touch her. In turn if they post it out in the open we all see what is going on. If a post is deleted or the topic is closed unless the problem has been actually resolved it will in turn show that they are right.

Until the reforms this is considered to be in a state of civil war. You need to do your job but at the same time you don't want to completely silence them unless it gets out of hand. Otherwise you will be playing right into their hands. They want you to take measures. That way it proves that they are right. The best way to deal with them is to make sure the topic stays on topic, and stop overly flaming or flaming matches.

I agree this problem should have been dealt with the staff but the problem is the staff is too good of friends or knows they have no control over the situation. I'm not saying the staff shouldn't be all friends but when it comes to the sake of the board they should understand once they sign in to do actually staff things they are professional. They need to act like it in order to achieve what this board is capable of.

[Nisorin]

FINALLY. Someone who actually understands what a board's staff is supposed to do. And the ironic part? He's the one me, K2, Orph and Gaserlake lead a mutiny against at the end of Season 3.

Things need to be fixed, things need to be put out in the open. Yes, bigger boards can get away with refusing its members the ability to do anything about the staff, but small boards can't. You all saw what happened the last time I tried to quit the board entirely. Half its members decided to join me. You need to understand, Hikaru, you can't simply run it with an iron fist. Deal with it.

Now, instead of arguing about this board does things this way, that board does them this way, blah blah blah, let's actually get things accomplished, shall we? The biggest threat the board faces right now is a tie between the lack of IC posts and the neglectful/disrespectful actions of the staff.

[Queen Bright]

<~Hikaru> But like the other stuff? Seriously. I haven't even been back a week yet, and "Hikaru needs to go off staff?" WHAT MAY I PRETELL DID THE FUCK I DO?!
<~Hikaru> What Orph accuses of me without proof that I gave what really happened and solved?
<~Hikaru> A damn empty threat OFF-SITE to hawk about posting or he's banned (for a damn laugh) ?
<~Hikaru> OH WAIT
<~Hikaru> Maybe it's because I slacked off because of COLLEGE!
* Dan idles
<~Hikaru> And wasn't active as I should be, oh I'm sorry that I paid attention to educationf irst.
<Swiftyuki> knowing hawk, he takes that seriously
<~Hikaru> Well they can all rest now. Because of Jail I got dropped from my classes.
<~Hikaru> I have all the time in the world now.

[Logan]

First off the Message was a PM on site. Second off I don't think the jail thing matters to me. Third off my whole problem is with the way the staff currently works. This isn't just a war waged at you. When I say this isn't personal I mean it. My earlier posts have been directed to your doings because they show us the most on how broken the staff is. This isn't really so much as a personal war as it a political war I guess. We as members want more done about problems. We want action. I personally was dictating what I gotten out of all this problem with my last post.

[Ragnar the Red]

I've never had a problem with your inactivity. When the whole staff is inactive then I'm unhappy, but you don't really approve my stuff much. I end up not caring about your activity that much because of it.

[Admiral Regis Hermitage]

Look. You as members need to realize and respect our reasons for being inactive. We can't be here 24/7. Additionally, problems with staff will be dealt with by staff. We all know what goes on, and we try to fix it. It doesnt help if we have members bitching to us left and right.

[Logan]

Look. You as members need to realize and respect our reasons for being inactive. We can't be here 24/7. Additionally, problems with staff will be dealt with by staff. We all know what goes on, and we try to fix it. It doesnt help if we have members bitching to us left and right.

Lyoko, if I told you to relax would you bite my head off? I understand that you won't be active 24/7, I'm hoping reforms come up with a system to fix this problem. I also understand problems need to be solved by the staff but if the staff don't keep us informed on what is happening nothing really has to be held accountable. In the end when nothing changes we have no one to blame. I personally think if a board like this is going to work everything has too be left out in the open we should all be apart of chats that effect us. If not then whats the point of being here? Even the larger boards takes the time to let everyone know what is happening

[Ragnar the Red]

Its not a problem of getting online, but when I post a request and it's left there for months on end things get frustrating.

[Kalorph_]

Its not a problem of getting online, but when I post a request and it's left there for months on end things get frustrating.

Exactly. I'm tired of the same ol' excuse.
"We're not on 24/7."

But when staff ARE; I see them sit there and don't do anything. Or you update THEIR requests or THEIR things. Ignoring your responsibilities as staff.

[Ghost]

When I finish my requests, I IM the staff. :/

[Ragnar the Red]

They don't like that. To be honest, I can sympathize, but to be fair it shouldn't come to that.

[Ghost]

I generally do that to get things going instead of waiting there for them to come on their own sweet time :/

[Kalorph_]

I'd probably never get anything looked at unless I make Jeebus or Kaleb aware, or just yell a lot.