Seriously?

[Ghost]

I'd rather have it to where staff cares about members enough to where they would remove the privilege of doing whatever they want. Members help make up the board, too, especially in IC stuff, so they should have some say in IC stuff. They help make up the OOC stuff as well, as they contribute OOC things, as well. Votes? The only thing that does is to see what the members in general want to happen. It wouldn't matter in the end, anyway, because it's the staff's final say. Therefore, even if 100% of the non-staff members say no, the staff can still say yes, and make yes happen. Hell, the staff ARE the members, but it's like the process of a member becoming a staff is to be brainwashed into looking down on the members, as if they never experienced being a non-staff. We already had an incident where someone didn't care about the members enough to keep himself from abusing his powers, and rejected member input, as he was allowed to do whatever he wanted to do. Yet, in the beginning, he was a very accepted person. That was how he became the owner of the website in the first place. Nobody knew that he was going to do what he did, and the same applies to the current staff right now: we don't know what they're going to do. Therefore, I want to limit the staff's powers in a preventive action.

Okay... So I tried to stay off this topic but let me try to clarify things. Most of this, I can draw from Lyoko being admin. Some of it from K2. But other things don't fit.

Most of the staffers do listen to any member comments and complaints. Hiro, jeebus, Zak and Nisorin seem to excel at this. And I know you made this when staff opposed your ideals for something. However, other nonstaff members also disagreed and staff went with the majority.

If 100% of the members say "no" or even 51% of them choose so, the staff should go by that. A good example of this failure was the Eclipse. A good number of the member base said "no" and I said "no" to a degree(but for other reasons I'll leave out because it's off topic). The event continued for about 3 more days before ending because of a massive lack of activity.

Only in special cases can staff make a choice without regular members saying anything. However, virtually nothing I've seen so far gives them an option to do so.

Attempts to limit staff power is... Dumb... It will not allow them to preform actions they normally would. I do, however, believe that site owners shouldn't be head admin because they pay for the site. It makes sense that they "are" because they pay for it, but the actions previously committed kind of broke that idea for me. Methinks head admins should be responsible users. Not fools.

Those are my two cents. Gonna sleep on the bus now. Whee

[K2]

Theoretically, staff can do whatever we want. That doesn't mean we do.

We don't put a lot of what we do up to a vote but if its a major issue and we feel we need to get member input then we do. If staff had a reason to we would possibly go with the opposite of what the majority says, but we almost always go with the majority.

[Gaserlake]

Therefore, I want to limit the staff's powers in a preventive action.

Elaborate?

That there should be staff rules, to try to keep them from abusing their powers. If there are staff rules, K2's statement that staff can do whatever they want makes it seem like there are no staff rules.

If 100% of the members say "no" or even 51% of them choose so, the staff should go by that. A good example of this failure was the Eclipse. A good number of the member base said "no" and I said "no" to a degree(but for other reasons I'll leave out because it's off topic). The event continued for about 3 more days before ending because of a massive lack of activity.

Is there a reason why the staff decision went against majority in the case of the Eclipse? K2, this and the recent incident contradict your statement that staff almost always go with the majority.

[K2]

We didn't go against the majority decision. We ended Eclipse because it was wildly unpopular and killing the board.

[Gaserlake]

Maybe it took you around three days to figure out that members didn't like it? I've also heard that the Eclipse event happened without any warning. The event's reception I'm getting is pretty bad. Either the event was executed without any warning, which is bad, because it means the staff can do things that affects the members without having to let the members know, or the members did have warning, but their decision against the event was ignored, which is also bad, because it means that the staff can go against the majority decision, even for an IC event.

[Ghost]

Maybe it took you around three days to figure out that members didn't like it? I've also heard that the Eclipse event happened without any warning. The event's reception I'm getting is pretty bad. Either the event was executed without any warning, which is bad, because it means the staff can do things that affects the members without having to let the members know, or the members did have warning, but their decision against the event was ignored, which is also bad, because it means that the staff can go against the majority decision, even for an IC event.

it was done with little to no warning. And the excuse by staff was this: well you guys didn't have any ideas. (They never asked c: )

[Gaserlake]

Theoretically, staff can do whatever we want. That doesn't mean we do.

But it doesn't mean that the staff WON'T  The staff could have at least asked members for ideas, and proposed the Eclipse plot to them. After that, there was the incident with Lyoko. This shows that the staff can, and will, do whatever they want, even if it kills the board. I don't know where you're getting the idea that the staff almost always goes with the majority.

What do you want to happen, then, you may ask. I want more communication between the staff and the members to happen. How? The staff should act as if they're in the members' shoes, and understand the members' comments, concerns, ideas, etc. This is the first step.

[@Pokemon Master Red]

Um...For the record, Swift's mixing the Eclipse Event up with the Genesis event. The Magic Eclipse Event most everyone was fine and on board with, but what happened was that during a period of relative inactivity DURING the Magic Eclipse(which was more or less AM across all existence that couldn't be blocked), Hik and Lyoko met together(apparently they would've included me but I wasn't on when they held the meeting, and I should mention that at that time oth were staff) and set the 'Genesis' event forward without consent from the memberbase or rest of the staff than just them. Then decided to ignore us when half the forum(including myself) began to revolt and more or less only gave in to cancel the blasted thing when we just decided "Fuck this we're out". Just to clarify what happened there since not all of the points seem to be coming across at all.
EDIT:It occurs to me that it might be a good idea to explain what Genesis was about and why we were mad at it...Basically, the Genesis Event was a immediate Technology Lock that Lyoko and Hik thought would bring in activity...While Magic was currently fizzling and useless, so all it ended up doing really was locking most Empires and characters down, which many of us disliked.

[Orga the Strange]

The revolt didn't happen until the Genisis thing got posted, but people were hating the Eclipse event from the get go, due to their characters/empires/whatever needing magic to survive cause they were in the middle of fighting, or in space, or their whole empire ran off off magic. Everyone just hated the whole thing in general.

[Admiral Regis Hermitage]

Well Hikaru and I kinda figured that it couldnt get more inactive than it already was considering it was really just myself, Hikaru, and Zak so we did go with the Genesis thing and combined it to make the Stone Age Multevent which was to encourage player to player personal interaction. Im still not sure why any of this is relevant because we resolved it in a pretty civilized manner considering our past experiences.

People need to get over things. 90% have been staff at one point or another, so we all know what its like to be on both ends of this. The Staff are responsible for everything that goes or doesnt go on, on this website. Much like a commander of a unit. The staff have this relatively unmetered power so that they can do what is necessary to ensure the survival of the site. Dont get mad because you were the minority or even because staff decided against the majority. Its really just you getting mad because you arent getting your way... get over it guys.

If you dont like how the site is run, do something about it, or quit. Dont just sit here and bitch. Yall know me, and should know that i call it like i see it.

[Queen Bright]

There's different forms of staff, however. "Administrator", "Moderator" these aren't just names for looks. There's differences between the two.
Almost every site you go on. The Administrators are the ones that run the board, the ones to decide who's banned, who's not, who to upgrade to staff, and every other decision about how the site is RAN.

Moderators on the other hand are normally just the people to take care of what's posted, the actions of others, and to report such things to the administrators to handle things. That's why they're different groups. That's why one has ACP access and the other does not.

So.. WHY when it comes to staff chats and decisions do moderators have voting power on decisions that only concern banning, staffing, and what not?
If you want to claim staff has full power and adhere to normal forum hierarchy, then technically Zak or any other moderator shouldn't be included in the decisions over how the site is ran either. That would fall to just K2, Jeebus, Nisorin, Hiro, and whoever else is ADMIN.

But you don't have that. You have mods having the same power and say as admins, just with no ACP access. Thus breaking how forums are usually ran anyways. So I think people have a right to complain when you ignore what the members say as if they have no say, yet at the same time treat mods as admins when normally mods as well have no say.

[Gaserlake]

If you dont like how the site is run, do something about it, or quit. Dont just sit here and bitch. Yall know me, and should know that i call it like i see it.

I'm doing something about it right now, by making a topic about this. I want things to change to a certain degree. So what do you expect me to do? Quit? That doesn't guarantee that things will change substantially. Hell, you made it to where members can be replaced, which seems like the staff agrees on it, otherwise the situation with you would have happened sooner. So any change from quitting that I would make would be minimal. Tell me one thing, other from discussing about it, which I'm doing right now, that I'm allowed to do, that would change the website.

Lyoko, it's not just about not getting my way. It's also about HOW it's not going my way. It would be unfair if I get banned for literally no reason, or if the reason would be that the staff feels like it. Yes, it wouldn't be going my way, but I would also be pissed because on how unfair it would be.

Plus, the ratio of active staff member to active non-staff member is very unbalanced. There really needs to be less staff members than there are right now.

[Queen Bright]

Like Nisorin, K2, and Hiro.

Nisorin isn't active ever.
K2 is hardly active and when he is he just breaks things or does things without any input from anyone. (Um dude there's no reason we can't have a wiki AND forum articles)
Hiro doesn't know how to use the ACP and is better off a mod due to that.

If you're gonna be a damn admin, have the skills for it. And the time, seriously. Jeebus also has no time... In fact, none of the staff members do except for Hiro who doesn't have the skills. So no wonder our site sucks. The admins have neither time nor skills.

[Gaserlake]

I don't think Hiro has any experience with the ACP, so I would give him a chance with being an admin. Other than that, I agree with Hikaru.

[Queen Bright]

I don't think Hiro has any experience with the ACP, so I would give him a chance with being an admin. Other than that, I agree with Hikaru.

Um dude.. that's more of a reason for him NOT to be staff. You don't put someone that hardly knows what they're doing in charge.
It's a position that's earned or appointed due to the skills they posses to help. Not some training job.

[Kota]

I still have ACP panel aptitude, enough for minor board maintenance. Been here for years.
Properly medicated and rather prone to rampant episodes of cleaning/updating/helping.
Only reason I ever lost admin powers was due to me choosing to leave after being unable to continue the story with the involvement of Taylor.
I'm also handsome.
And, completely for the people most of the time. But I'm not an overly democratic idiot. Some shit should be staff/founder business. For reasons.

[Queen Bright]

You forgot to say if you had time or not 

You, Me and Gaser have time.
You, Me, and Lyoko have skills.

But we're the ones that will probably never be staff again.

[Gaserlake]

What I meant to say is that I think he should be taught how to use the ACP, and then give him a chance to see how he does. It's pretty much a probation. I would think that training should be provided to those who aren't skilled, but are otherwise fit to be an admin, and are chosen to be an admin. Hiro seems to be a very reasonable person, in my eyes, and he has some experience as staff doing things that aren't part of the ACP, so I think he should be taught on how to use the ACP to serve as a more efficient admin. That way, if he succeeds, he WOULD be someone fit to be in charge. If he doesn't succeed, then I would suggest moving him down to a mod, as there would be no need for him to have access to the ACP, while others are fit to have ACP access.

[Nisorin]

Here's my opinion on a truly successful staff setup:


An odd number of members. One is appointed Head Admin. This member's new role is as a sort of Speaker of the House. Makes sure EVERYONE can get their part said, keeps the peace amongst staff, etc. Beyond keeping the peace between staff members, this person has no more power than any of the other admins.


The others are admins and mods both. None of them should be so stubborn that they won't accept compromise. They should be able to work well with each other, and respect each other enough to consider their ideas. Most importantly, their primary care should be for the members. Not the board, not the story, the members. Without the members a board dies.

[Admiral Regis Hermitage]

You forgot to say if you had time or not 

You, Me and Gaser have time.
You, Me, and Lyoko have skills.

But we're the ones that will probably never be staff again.

I'll give you that.... But i made time when i could.

[Kota]

Here's my opinion on a truly successful staff setup:


An odd number of members. One is appointed Head Admin. This member's new role is as a sort of Speaker of the House. Makes sure EVERYONE can get their part said, keeps the peace amongst staff, etc. Beyond keeping the peace between staff members, this person has no more power than any of the other admins.


The others are admins and mods both. None of them should be so stubborn that they won't accept compromise. They should be able to work well with each other, and respect each other enough to consider their ideas. Most importantly, their primary care should be for the members. Not the board, not the story, the members. Without the members a board dies.

This.
While the story and board are major parts of the series..they don't matter if no one is posting. This has to be a place of fun, enjoyment, and creativity.

I have time; I'm unemployed, and even when employed I'm still addicted to the internet.

[Gaserlake]

Here's my opinion on a truly successful staff setup:


An odd number of members. One is appointed Head Admin. This member's new role is as a sort of Speaker of the House. Makes sure EVERYONE can get their part said, keeps the peace amongst staff, etc. Beyond keeping the peace between staff members, this person has no more power than any of the other admins.


The others are admins and mods both. None of them should be so stubborn that they won't accept compromise. They should be able to work well with each other, and respect each other enough to consider their ideas. Most importantly, their primary care should be for the members. Not the board, not the story, the members. Without the members a board dies.

At least there's a staff member that's trying to figure this out. This might be a good idea, though it's sad that we have to suggest having someone take position to make sure everyone gets their voices heard. If we can already get people's voices heard, then we don't really need a Head Admin, that would to serve as something like a Speaker of the House.

[Emily Arca]

Oh goodness you guys are so silly.

You guys need a recruiting network, that's your problem. And no one wants to join a story 27 years in-the-making. Or at least no one I know of. Especially one that, for all its novelty & nostalgia, has so many plot holes I've often confused it for Swiss cheese. Members are great & administration is great and those two together are great & if you have those both that's just amazing.

But like still to get members you need to give them a reason to want to join.

What's that reason now?

[UnStellar]

Oh goodness you guys are so silly.

You guys need a recruiting network, that's your problem. And no one wants to join a story 27 years in-the-making. Or at least no one I know of. Especially one that, for all its novelty & nostalgia, has so many plot holes I've often confused it for Swiss cheese. Members are great & administration is great and those two together are great & if you have those both that's just amazing.

But like still to get members you need to give them a reason to want to join.

What's that reason now?

^
This

[Ghost]

Oh goodness you guys are so silly.

You guys need a recruiting network, that's your problem. And no one wants to join a story 27 years in-the-making. Or at least no one I know of. Especially one that, for all its novelty & nostalgia, has so many plot holes I've often confused it for Swiss cheese. Members are great & administration is great and those two together are great & if you have those both that's just amazing.

But like still to get members you need to give them a reason to want to join.

What's that reason now?

^
This

^

There is no real reason right now. C: