Shattered Planes Archives (Seasons 4 & 5)
The Hub => Accepted Requests => Accepted Characters => Topic started by: Ragnar the Red on June 11, 2011, 09:08:27 PM
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I begun writing the request on my ipod for this character before the new template arrives. Some stuff doesn't quite work, but I'm hopimg staff will accept it because where it breaks a rule it doesn't break the reason the rule is in place. If I missed anything important, plesase tell me so (This comment only applies to staff.
Name: Calto Rubian
Gender: Male
Age: 117
Race: Heliphlein
Birthplace: Ibilin, Ephlan
Allegiance: The Heliphlein Empire
Bio: To be honest, everything Ive done is because of a girl. Uliah Evenek. We both were born Ephlangar, and we both fell in love. We wanted to get married, but in Ephlangar territory only arranged marriages are permitted, so we left. We decided to live in Veliphlan territory. We got married, and were expecting a baby, but one day she was killed in a robbery. It was like everything I had been living for had been yanked from beneath my feet. I started having torment spikes. Nothing major, but it was always painful. I never was consumed by it. Well, not the 'incident' as they called it. I was in an electrical facility, and I ran into Uliah's killer. I don't know what came over me: I just heard his name, and I just kept getting more and more angry. He shoved me, and the that was it. I just remember waking up in the burnt, icy ruins of the station. I later found out that my emotional level of torment was 99%. 99! Experts were astonished that I got so high without killing myself. I set a record.
Everything since that day has been, I don't know, clearer. I don't know why, but it's like I started living differently, or in a different way. They sent me to one of the top CODE facilities in the world to help me control my emotions. Scientists did some tests on me for the three years I was in there, but they never figured out what had happened: or why I survived. There was some sort of magical interference that made me hard to read. They said it was probably some sort of residual energy in my blood from my burst of torment. They still wanted to study me, even after I got out.
After I was deemed safe I honestly didn't know what to do with my life. I had lost everything, so I guess I want to be on the mission so I can find something else to live for. Yeah, I tried to reacquaint with people from my old life, namely my family, but I was dead to them. They pretended they had never seen me before.
I'm qualified. I have nothing to lose. I'm perfect for the mission.
Weapons: N/A
Equipment: A picture of Uliah and a watch that measures dangerous emotion level. The faster and louder it beeps the mire danger everyone is in.
Magic Level: Well, I don't really know what I'd say to that. I'm a Heliphlein that faces torment, but most of the time I'm kind of mediocre with magic. I guess sometimes I'm a 4 or 5, but usually I'm quite a bit lower.
Appearance: It's a pretty good picture, but for some reason I look evil. It's weird. You also have to compensate for that red eye thing, cause as you can see, mine are navy coloured.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Light_from_Death_Note.jpg)
Personality: I've been through trauma before. The death of my wife's left me scared, but I'm not an unstable emotion pit anymore. It's left me hardened, so I don't show my emotions as much as I used to. Then again, I did used to be a bottomless pit of emotion, only then, it was all positive. The Ephlangar really liked that about me.
Anyway, I'm a very inquisitive man. When I grew up I was little I wanted to know everything there was to know about everything. At first, I payed more attention to my teachers then my classmates, but my dreams of knowing everything fell through when I decided to move to Velyk. Now I actually have a chance at getting back to that dream,but I warn you, I've grown far less passionate.
Occupation: Like I said, I have nothing to loose. I'm unemployed.
Fears: The biggest thing I'm afraid of is hurting someone. Torment fits terrify me for that reason. I guess I'm also scared about the mission. What if we find something? What if we don't?
Interests: I like reading a lot. It's always been something that has helped me escape reality. That's been especially great since... you know. I also like practicing calm emotions. It puts me at ease. Concentration is my favorite. Come to think of it, I also like practicing magical arts. It's always been something that I've been good at, and something that I've felt I could do better with. Playing sports like tefltinqin's always fun. Programming is something I like as well. It may sound boring, but working with technology really isn't.
Aspiration: I want redemption. I need a chance to start over.
I also want to find something out there. I know I said I was scared of that, but I'm feeling both ways. I'm completely terrified and excited about what we'll find.
I guess the other big thing I want to do with my life is something I don't want to do: let anyone down again. I'm not some kind of perfectionist, but I don't want to cause some kind of sick mess. I know I'll screw up some, but I plan on avoiding big messes.
Relationship Status: Single
Orientation: Straight
CODE: Control Of Dangerous Emotion- Any Heliphlein agency designed for help with controlling emotion.
Everyone's seen the secret part now, so I'm adding it to the mix.
And now that it's been approved it is once again hidden!
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Buuuump!
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What?
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If your topic is being ignored you can bump it. It puts it on the radar more often than not.
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Approved. Sorry, been busy and forgot about this.
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Approved.
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Addition approved.
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Addition approved
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Character and Addition approved....
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Additions not approved. There's so many things wrong with them. And the fact you ditched the post that showed them is showing you're damn well letting a godmodding mess into the RP.
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Okay, what's wrong with the character?
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How am I supposed to know if the post was deleted and he only PMd it to two of you? We need the post again to determine that. I just remember at the time I would NOT have approved it due to so many things it had godmodding.
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Nik, do you have a copy of the post?
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I was PMed it. Hikaru, hes has 3 staff approvals and 1 denial... theres not a Damn thing you can do unless another staff denies it.
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If it's contested it has to be worked out if there's things wrong with the character in question.
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I hid it not because it was a godmod, but because I wanted to preserve the sense of mystery about him. The addition was simply a quote of Hikaru quoting the character in the OOC sections. It'll either be in a graveyard or the back of the section. I'll try to find it, but even so, what makes my character a 'godmod' is that he can be as powerful as someone else. That makes him equal to any other character, so if he becomes to powerful, look to the other characters around him, nit to him.
Also, I suspect that this onslaught brought on by Hikaru is more based on the Rper who requested it than the content he requested.
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Here
http://shatteredplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=4389.0
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Reading it little by little, but first things first.
Too powerful.
One touch and you get all their powers, memories, abilities, whatsoever? So one touch and you'd have say Genesis as well as other inherited/bloodline magics without being of that inheritance? Um, hell no? Maybe if you had to go through a process. But just one touch? Godmodding to the G.
Touch = Absorb DNA = ANIMORPHS RIP
Memories cannot be erased, they are of the spirit. They can be forgotten, repressed, and even sealed. But not erased. As such because they are of the spirit, one touch would not take them so easily. And if the persons mind is shielded? It wouldn't get any memories at all.
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? Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 02:33:35 PM ?
And it's not like a one quick touch will get him every memory from thousands of years every time. It could, but Cadinae knows it could drive him crazy having billions of years of different people's memories,
Also, memories are something I won't be using much due to it's link with RPer knowledge. Also, he can only do so with beings from this plane, which rules out Plex, and embodiments, and others that are the most powerful beings are unable to be turned. And for the record, Plex was more powerful than almost every other being we've faced. Saying he was equal in power to anything is about a silly a statement as Touch = Absorb DNA = ANIMORPHS RIP
Do you seriously thing Animorphs is the only thing that has touching and absorbing DNA? That's been around forever.
Also, He's already approved.Approved. Sorry, been busy and forgot about this.
Addition approved.
Addition approved
Character and Addition approved....
(That does no count. Why? Because it was never put up FOR approval in staff chat. Oh sure, I was yelled at for posting it, but those two just approved it without putting it up for approval. The rest of us never got the chance to say what was wrong with it. And oh believe me, there's tons wrong with it that need to be fixed.)
(You posted it. It was also in the staff chat for all the staff to see. You had PLENTY chance to contest it when it was being kicked about. You didn't. Cadinae is approved.)
(Cadinae was never approved. Calto was, but not the alter ego. That much power, and abilities that are borderline godmodding? Needs to be approved. And NO, secret approvals DO NOT count.
Also, You can't use phoenix sages WHATSOEVER without my approval as it is my race, so yes, BS.)
Actually his character has 2 approvals for the charater and the addition each. His charater IS approved. Get over it, seriously.
Now I'm sick of you whining. You hate everything I do because I do it. You find fault with everything I create unless it is seriously underpowered, and I'm sick of it. It's been approved by more than enough people. It's not fair that Hikaru can just complain that she doesn't like something I do and shut it down. Why do you think my most powerful ship in the fleet is a flimsy transport? It's just not fair.
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Now you're just playing victim. The only damn reason I'm going over your request is because I was asked by [classified] to look it over and see if "such and such was allowed." Now actually re-reading the damn request, there's several things wrong with it. And it does not matter if it is approved, if it is contested it still needs to be looked at, stop trying to backseat mod, seriously.
Again, the memories thing, shielded minds would give no memories. And one touch should not be able to absorb any memories. They are of the SPIRIT.
You completely ignored my say about the one touch being too powerful. And the inherited magics. I'll only approve if he can't get access to ALL abilities. Because there's some types of magic that are inherited through ritual, bloodline, or other means ONLY.
You said Plexan, not Plex -.-. PLEXAN, such as Orpheus and other Plexan mages are equals....
Personally to me Plex was weak as hell.
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I am the victim. I had a great character that I spent months thinking out and weeks writing out, and after months of scandal got it approved. Now you get to whine and get it unapproved. This easily tops everything in the harassment report.
I don't know what shielded minds are, but I'd be perfectly happy with letting them be protected from this.
Also, from what I understand contesting an approval only works if there's only two approvals. And this isn't backseat modding. This is me yelling my rights at you. If I were whipping out rules and such in someone else's request, you may have a point. As is, you just told me not to defend myself. That's never going to happen.
Anyway, taking on someone's body would guarantee bloodline powers no matter what. I mean, it is a body snatcher kind of magic, and bloodline is body.
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Wrong. If by magic (or curse or whatever) you're taking their 'form,' that is not taking their blood. Blood is sacred, no matter if you take the form, the magic in that blood cannot be copied. You may borrow or copy the form, but that is not taking their actual body. Therefore you WOULD NOT have bloodline powers.
Also, if you're going to accuse anyone of whining, accuse yourself. I'm only going over a godmodding request at the request of another member. Don't like it? Then don't cause other members to complain over your character to the point a staff member is asked to look at it. The one touch thing is godmodding, end of story.
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Actually, this character is taking their body. That's why it is the absorbing DNA. I never said I was taking their form. I specifically said body. That's why he stays in humanoid form.
Did I complain to staff when someone created a sun on my planet in a single post? No. That's godmodding because it doesn't allow time for the three day rule. You're the one who exploded on me when you just found out you didn't get your way six months ago. You are the one whose whining.
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Okay, guys, stop arguing. Once we get the flaws fixed you can resume RPing your character.
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I thought this arguing was straightening out the flaws.
Btw, id'd be willing to give up ritual based magicianry as long as the ritual doesn't affect physical form.
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Actually, this character is taking their body. That's why it is the absorbing DNA. I never said I was taking their form. I specifically said body. That's why he stays in humanoid form.
Did I complain to staff when someone created a sun on my planet in a single post? No. That's godmodding because it doesn't allow time for the three day rule. You're the one who exploded on me when you just found out you didn't get your way six months ago. You are the one whose whining.
DNA DOES NOT MATTER. It is form, not body if it is through DNA. You are not jumping into their body, you are creating it anew from the DNA. While the actual DNA imprint of the blood may be there, the magic within that persons blood IS NOT. You could 'touch,' say K2s character K2323 or Kai, but that does not give you Genesis as it is an inherited or whatever his method is magic. You would get his DNA, yes. But you would not get his spirit/soul that inherited the power from the King.
You could touch Hikaru, Rev, or another with Revelation. You would get the body and DNA make up but you would not get the bloodline power of Revelation as it only came from a book and when that was consumed, Hikaru herself as well as her descendants through bloodline and spirit ritual. Again, not of the DNA and not of a magic you can just 'steal.'
You could touch a Phoenix who's magic abilities are innate in their blood. You would not get them even if you built their form from their DNA. Why? The blood loses the abilities once it leaves the vicinity of the spirit of that particular Phoenix.
My point is, certain powers you would not be able to obtain and that needs to be seen/agreed on for approval. At most you would get common magic and magic that does not depend on bloodline, spirit, or any other special means that needs to be fulfilled.
Also, again, one touch? 5 minute touch, ritual, hold, something! But one touch like a tap? Too easy and too overpowered.
You would also not have the skill as that falls under memories and training. Their strength skill, maybe. Their learned skills and thought processes? That is of the memory and therefore spirit.
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I did say memories int he thing, right?
Therefore it would copy part of the spirit over to his. Not the whole thing, but part of it.
Even if it were more than a simple tap it would still take an easy millisecond. He is a Templar after all.
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And that's where I deny it. You can't copy the spirit as that is all of a person, it is who they are, their consciousness, their life. To copy that would be breaking even a law of existence. You also couldn't copy it and would have to steal it. So no, no spirit.
Templar does NOT give him godlike powers. I'm already edgy on your Harboring planet topic. I mean god, look at Jeebus's character Jay the ELDER who tires out rather easily. Then your guy can throw out time spell after time spell after time spell without even breaking a sweat? There's something severely OP about that, but not the point.
Last I checked Templars were of time, not spirit. And they are not gods. "He is a templar after all," does not work as an excuse.
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Yes, templars have time powers. So therefore something that would take an hour he could do in a second by altering the speed of time. Not godlike at all.
And now I know you barely read the topic on Helios, because sweat was a detail I specifically was using. Now he is lying limp.
But if it is not all of a spirit it is not all of a person. He only takes memories.
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Memories and Spirit cannot be separated. If you take the memories you take a part of their spirit which is forbidden as it can only be turned into SE by the person themselves. Cutting parts of a Spirit off someone is so far impossible. And one touch would not do such a thing.
Also, the time thing is godmodding. Dodging attacks is one thing. Landing an attack/touch against someones will is not adhering to the limits of time powers. Hell, even I couldn't do that with Asura.
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He's not actually taking the spirit though, just partially remolding his with that as a basis.
I wouldn't actually freeze time for a touch. I'd slow it, and that still leaves room for player defense.
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Which doesn't work. You can't copy someones spirit. It is WHO THEY ARE. Their life. Their consciousness. All of them. Your power said it took abilities and body. Body is nothing. Spirit is who a person is. Powers and memories that depend on the spirit are then off limits if all he takes is body and body abilities. So you're only approved if it's limited to form/body only. NOTHING Spirit.
As such, that would exclude the bloodline, inheritance, and spiritual powers as I designated the other post.
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Which doesn't work. You can't copy someones spirit. It is WHO THEY ARE. Their life. Their consciousness. All of them. Your power said it took abilities and body. Body is nothing. Spirit is who a person is. Powers and memories that depend on the spirit are then off limits if all he takes is body and body abilities. So you're only approved if it's limited to form/body only. NOTHING Spirit.
As such, that would exclude the bloodline, inheritance, and spiritual powers as I designated the other post.
The Aralangs did it... Kinda. With C2323. They used K2323's spirit energy to activate the body.
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K2323 gave the Spirit Energy, there's a difference there. It may as well have been a type of ritual.
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I know, I'm saying if he edits to do something like this it'd be okay.
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It wouldn't. Because then he'd want to do that ritual with 'one touch,' and say he can just because he's a Templar. And again. K2323 GAVE the Spirit Energy. I already said only the persons who's spirit it is can convert it from the Astral Plane into the Physical and into Spirit Energy. Nik wants Calto to do it with the person he does it to unwilling.
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I'm not going to make some fancy ritual for it, but memory needs to be there even if only because of backstory.
And it's Cadinae.
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Calto, Cadinae, all the same.
And no. The memories are of the Spirit. You cannot take them. If you can't do a ritual to try to copy them then again. Agree to the terms. No Bloodline, Interitance, or Spirtual powers. No skill that requires the memories of that persons common magic. (Like if they made up spells you wouldn't know them.) Only form/body/common magic.
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[18:22] <~K2323> "Taking" parts of the spirit would not work but if you could somehow temporarily interface yourself with a spirit you could "copy" memories from that spirit without taking anything
[18:22] <Hikaru> He wants to do it through one touch
[18:23] <~K2323> obviously we will tell him it takes more than one touch
[18:23] <Hikaru> And memories, yes. But not Bloodline/Interhitance/Innate spirtual powers
[18:23] <~K2323> oh
[18:23] <~K2323> I agree
[18:23] <Hikaru> And not if their mind is sealed/shielded
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I already gave up shielded minds, Hikaru. The post after I found out they existed in fact.
And also, give a raw bloodline definition, because what It actually is may be something that I think ritual to.
I'll be willing to make the memories be some kind of ritual, but it must be able to happen accidentally.
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Actually, this character is taking their body. That's why it is the absorbing DNA. I never said I was taking their form. I specifically said body. That's why he stays in humanoid form.
Did I complain to staff when someone created a sun on my planet in a single post? No. That's godmodding because it doesn't allow time for the three day rule. You're the one who exploded on me when you just found out you didn't get your way six months ago. You are the one whose whining.
DNA DOES NOT MATTER. It is form, not body if it is through DNA. You are not jumping into their body, you are creating it anew from the DNA. While the actual DNA imprint of the blood may be there, the magic within that persons blood IS NOT. You could 'touch,' say K2s character K2323 or Kai, but that does not give you Genesis as it is an inherited or whatever his method is magic. You would get his DNA, yes. But you would not get his spirit/soul that inherited the power from the King.
You could touch Hikaru, Rev, or another with Revelation. You would get the body and DNA make up but you would not get the bloodline power of Revelation as it only came from a book and when that was consumed, Hikaru herself as well as her descendants through bloodline and spirit ritual. Again, not of the DNA and not of a magic you can just 'steal.'
You could touch a Phoenix who's magic abilities are innate in their blood. You would not get them even if you built their form from their DNA. Why? The blood loses the abilities once it leaves the vicinity of the spirit of that particular Phoenix.
My point is, certain powers you would not be able to obtain and that needs to be seen/agreed on for approval. At most you would get common magic and magic that does not depend on bloodline, spirit, or any other special means that needs to be fulfilled.
^What I meant by bloodline/spiritual/inheritance powers. You have no way o claiming them without the users approval and without them passing them.
Accident wouldn't work... Touch, ritual, doesn't matter. Whatever way you use to interface with the Spirit or mess with it in any way would be noticed by the person if they are a magic user.
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The person interfacing would notice, the person who's being interfaced into would not necessarily if precautions were taken.
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Could it be a ritual born out of a chaotic fit of rage, sorrow, and stress?
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Unless you're doing something to distract them or hiding it as a different spell, then yes the person it's being done to would sure as hell notice. We're talking about the Spirit, K2. If someone starts interfacing into your consciousness. You're gonna notice.
And ritual for what? The memories?
Cause' there's no ritual you can do to get the powers.
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If you get the powers via ritual in the first place then there is a ritual...
And yes, I was talking about the memories. Calto had a Torment fit, and touched Cadinae. Cadinae lost all his memories, and though he was Calto.
And that doesn't really help. How does bloodline occur? If you are born with it you automatically have it? or do you have to activate it somehow or get it somewhere from your family?
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Different ones have different causes. K2 has to explain Genesis. I just know it's by inheritance. Revelation has to be casted by Hikaru or someone with Revelation magic themselves onto the person they're giving it to and has to fuse the magic into that persons Spirit and blood... Then they have to do the same. But it can't be stolen that way. For Phoenix's innate abilities it is from their blood that is Holy Fire created as a part of their Spirit... But once the blood leaves that Phoenx's body and is no longer in the vicinity of the Spirit it no longer holds those abilities. Nor does creating that blood from the DNA give them. Interfacing with the Spirit would not give one those abilities. The one that has the abilities must give them unto the one they want...
It can't be by accident. Do you even know what a ritual is? Go look it up.
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http://shatteredplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=4325.msg37006#msg37006
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That's a lot different K2 -.-
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Couldn't Cadinae's memory power just be that?
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No.. His is tech and it isn't taking the memories it's creating an altered illusion to the person to make them think something else.
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On the subject of memory taking, I DO have a technology that does so(which I reworked for your conditions as well, Hik): http://shatteredplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=1797.msg18070#msg18070
However, of course, mine doesn't actually remove memories from the target, just cripples their brain and blah, but either way(unsure about Nick's character...Eh).
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Memory Dowloading Replay Alteration Picturing (Mem_Pic)
An intelligence gathering device which takes the memories of an individual and replays said memories. The memories are altered ever so slightly in the subconscious so that the target does not realize the memories are being altered. This is used to gain intelligence. It is a rather controversial type of intellegence gathering tactics, and the long term effects it can have on a target are unknown. Sort of kept secret, the Zarethian Hand neither confirms or denies the use of such a machine on prisoners, leading much of the Zarethian media to speculation.
Hik, it takes the memories and hides the fact that they did by altering the memory slightly.
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You're only reading part of his sentence.. you don't quote just part of a sentence and change the meaning...
Anyways. AGAIN. They're part of the Spirit. Adhere to the original conditions K2 and I already gave or nothing.
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I quoted the entire post Hikaru.
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You quoted the whole line but underlined only part of the sentence in emphasis.
ANYWAYS. I told you what you have to change on the power. Now lets get on with what ELSE is wrong with the request.
You say he's from the future of OUR time that's come back to stop that future from happening... NO. He can be from a future, yes. Mokai; K2's character is from the present gone in time, back and forth. HOWEVER, he cannot be here to stop an event. We are under the multiverse of multiple timelines/universes. KNOWING THE FUTURE CHANGES THE FUTURE. There is NO fixed future. For him to have come back to our time? His future is now no longer the future and if he does something in our time to try to change it, he could probably fuck a bunch of things up trying to prevent something that's been changed already. His future now exists as a mere branch of a timeline and not the omni-timeline of ours anymore. If you're going to use time powers and timeline protection, use it right. Don't make your own rules up for it.
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Ah, but multiple staff members have challenged you on that point.
Anyway, as far as time goes, I know it's a future but it just feels weird to say it like that, hence why I say the future.
Also, I never said he was here to stop a future from happening.
Also, you say knowing the future changes the future, but changing the future could be a great deal lighter than you emphasize. It could be that the only change is that someone went to Wendey's rather than Burger King, or even that he knew what was coming and wasn't as shocked. A change in the future doesn't mean a completely different world with completely different subject matter. The changes could be minute.
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Nik, it DOES NOT matter. You know why? Even if other staff members challenge it. K2 posted the chat he and I had about the conditions of your characters powers being approved. You STILL refuse to agree to those conditions so then the character isn't approved. Doesn't matter what the other staff say when it comes to story and backstory mechanics of the RP. Both K2 and I the founders of the actual story mechanics (how Spirits and Memories work for one... How multiverse works for another -.-) gave you conditions and said your powers wouldn't be able to work that way. As we created the system you're trying to cheat, we do have the right to say that. I came up with the mechanics of Spirits and how they work with memories.
Bottom line. Ritual or nothing. Not one touch and not by accident. End of discussion.
It changes it according to how big the change is. Your going back in time and fighting things in a time not your own. It's gonna be pretty fucking changed. Even then... If the change is small, it still branches off into mixed futures. Your future has no affect on the present time or the present times unknown futures.
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Nik, believe it or not, Hikaru really is trying to work with you here, otherwise she would have done what she did to Nisorin and simply ignore the request after denying it. There really are some flaws in the character that we need to work out. Change the power to fit into current story mechanics, and adjust the biography regarding the timeline.
To put it simply, coming back to the past from the future creates an alternate reality, where there are now more than one versions of the same incident, with different outcomes... Let me try to explain this better.
Think of time as a straight line, from past to future. If someone from the future comes back to the past and changes events, a new, second line branches off from the first, so now both the first line is true AND the second line is true. He would not be changing the course of events that he experienced, he will still have experienced the events even after changing the outcome by coming to the past. But he will change everyone in present time's experience of the events, because SP is thus an alternate reality to his own.
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Okay, if Hikaru is trying to help, why doesn't she actually help. She tells me no, and stops at a dead end and is completely unable to compromise even when multiple members have proven her to be wrong. She could at least point me in another direction, but instead she holds tight. Take the time thing for example. Two members of staff, yourself included, show her a memory stealing device and instead of loosening her grip, she tightens it. Multiple staff members bring her information, and she disregards it automatically.
No.. His is tech and it isn't taking the memories it's creating an altered illusion to the person to make them think something else.
On the subject of memory taking, I DO have a technology that does so(which I reworked for your conditions as well, Hik): http://shatteredplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=1797.msg18070#msg18070
However, of course, mine doesn't actually remove memories from the target, just cripples their brain and blah, but either way(unsure about Nick's character...Eh).
Memory Dowloading Replay Alteration Picturing (Mem_Pic)
An intelligence gathering device which takes the memories of an individual and replays said memories. The memories are altered ever so slightly in the subconscious so that the target does not realize the memories are being altered. This is used to gain intelligence. It is a rather controversial type of intellegence gathering tactics, and the long term effects it can have on a target are unknown. Sort of kept secret, the Zarethian Hand neither confirms or denies the use of such a machine on prisoners, leading much of the Zarethian media to speculation.
Hik, it takes the memories and hides the fact that they did by altering the memory slightly.
You're only reading part of his sentence.. you don't quote just part of a sentence and change the meaning...
Anyways. AGAIN. They're part of the Spirit. Adhere to the original conditions K2 and I already gave or nothing.
Also, I get time. In fact, this statement, though it's challenging me, agrees with my argument: It changes it according to how big the change is. Your going back in time and fighting things in a time not your own. It's gonna be pretty fucking changed. Even then... If the change is small, it still branches off into mixed futures. Your future has no affect on the present time or the present times unknown futures.
You guys are yelling me about time, and it's the one thing on this forum that actually makes logical sense it seems (with the exception of a point in creation no matter when it was used existing in that plot for all eternity, that still doesn't make sense to me).
Anyway, I've had an idea that fits most of the qualifications Hikaru placed, and she's been forcing me to spend all my time arguing, and I'm sick of holding it in. I don't care anymore, I;m posting it. And Hikaru, before you say no, know that it was based on an idea of Cap's.
My idea is that it is a ritual, but it requires three things
1. A physical touch
2. Mutual sympathy/empathy between two people
3. One of them to die.
Two people are facing each other. They make eye contact, and touch each others hand. They are both feeling a strong emotion, and both are feeling a sympathy/empathy for each other. One of these people must be on the brink of death. Both must be emotionally tiring. When they are touching, the one about to die, must die. Upon doing this, it could cause a transfer the spirit of the dead one into the live one, but not necessarily into a dominating position. In this case, only the memories would have taken over.
It may need some working on, but it at least works rather than just adhering to a "No, never, give it up, I don't want you to have anything near it," approach.
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The conditions are fine all for one thing. If they die you can't have their spirit as it would go automatically to purgatory or be taken by the Reaper...
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Reaperz. :P
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What if the mesh happened on the brink of death, but if the person didn't die it would autocorrect and put the spirits back in order?
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Bump
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He's dead. It doesn't really matter if we approve him or not anymore.
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True.
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Not true. That was him from the (I'm sorry a) future.
And either way, he is still alive in the present, he is just Calto Rubian.
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Umm what? Do you still not know how time works?
Maybe one Calto is a Templar. But that one died. How just because he was a Templar in one timeline doesn't mean all of his alternate selves are going to be templars. Maybe in a parallel timeline, yes. But all of them? No. He could have taken a different path in life that made him a janitor for the South for all we know. Or another one where he's a Templar but didn't even come across Calto.
You're wanting to bring him back to life through an alternate timeline. But not every alternate timeline is going to bring him back they way you want him. Even if he's brought back that way. There will be SOMETHING different whether it's from a change in his favorite foods or a decrease in power. It'd be something.
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No Hikaru, this time you don't understand how time works.
Cadinae's life begun at his birth. Fairly obvious, but let's go into it a bit further, like, what race was he born? Templar. As Jeebus said, you can either be born a Templar, or be created a Templar. As young Cadinae grew up, he aspired to be a great Templar investigator, and ended up under the rank (or class, not sure which) of Denutemp. After a while, he lost a friend and was emotionally unstable. He traveled back in time following up on a lead, was captured, experimented on, but finally escaped back forward in time. The fact that it could be totally different aside, he went far to far in time. He went about ten years earlier than current time IC, and landed next to Calto at the time of Calto's greatest (and fatal) torment spike. It was there that he accidentally switched spots with Calto, not knowing so himself. *Two years later, he became a crew member for the New Gia mission, but he had a torment spike and teleported the ship away. The ship crashed on Tefilin (8 years later due to the post event time jump). Cadinae was just attended to by Zarethians while lying on the beach unconscious.
Here is a basic diagram of parallelism in a timeline _________________________Future a
_______/_________________________Future b
_________________________________/_________________________________Future c
Past \ Present \_______________________________Future d
\ \____________________Future e
\________________________________________________Future f
Using time travel you could not jump from the world of future a to e without going back to the present where they split off, which would be where some event or another altered its coarse. An event is required to change the coarse of history. If two things happen exactly the same way they will have exactly the same results. Now you'd be right in saying that the slightest variable can change things drastically, but when I say, exactly, I mean exactly. Transitive Property states that one thing is equal to itself. While Future a and Future c are actually on different timelines, they have the same events from the past to present. When Cadinae came from the future in recent topics he created an event that changed the future. Lets sat that it was the first event on the timeline. Had he not shone up, the future that would have progressed would be future c. However Cadinae, who is from future c, did come and change the future. Now the choice to create future f lies in our past. Cadinae did not travel to our past, so Cadinae could not have created this future variant of himself.
What does this all mean you might ask? It means that you cannot change a past event by acting in the future. I'm sorry Ocarina of Time fans, but it's true. The past is set in stone unless it becomes the present. You can make it the present by time traveling to it. However, what happened before the moment you arrive in the past, suddenly becomes the past, and cannot be changed unless you travel to it. The Cadinae who was fighting for Helios just now only traveled to our current present, so everything I outlined about Cadinae's past in the beginning of this post cannot have been changed by future Cadinae's travel to the present. Anything that hasn't happened yet IC, however, may not have happened to the Cadinae that just appeared to save Helios.
Basically, no matter what future Cadinae just did, he could not have changed anything that happened before his arrival indicated by the *.
Also, none of this changes that there is a present day Cadinae Rybic lying the Zarethian main world unconscious, and thinking he's Calto Rubian.
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Except we have infinite timlines due to multiverse. It can't happen exactly. There yet again would be the slightest of changes. You'd need a direct parllel timeline to the one he's from for him to be exact. And even then it wouldn't be exact. I know how time works. I'm telling you it's more complicated then your little diagram there.
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Yeah, I know that! Do you really think there's room for a full diagram in a post? No. I had to simplify it, otherwise it wouldn't even be understandable.
Yes, there would be changes, but none could happen before the point of changing, the present. What I said in paragraph 2 is set in stone due to the fact that present day Cadinae is still alive (And never showed up in the topic where Cadinae fought off the plant).
Yes, there is a multiverse, but Cadinae came from an alternate future, not an alternate past present and future, just an alternate future.
If you want to keep arguing, if you really think the Transitive property (That one thing is congruent to itself) is false, then by all means, argue against it. However if you've argued that every other founding piece of mathematics and physics by the end of this, things may go downhill for you quite fast.
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You forget that this is fiction, Nik. We subscribe to theories, quantum theories, time theories, etc. Nothing is ever exact as the IRL mechanics. -.-
And I'm saying. Even if the Cadinae of OUR world is alive. His past could be completely different from the one you brought back from the future.
Where is the original Cadinae born? A future? Then there could be a timeline where he's born in the past. Infinite possiblities means you can't get the exact Cadinae that died.
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I think what Nik's saying is that they aren't the exact same, or even by a longshot, but the point where Future!Calto/whichever branches off still would have yet to come for Present!Calto/Whichever. Up until that point in the future, they would still be the same. That point just hasn't come yet.
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Event then.. Wouldn't he have to re-request it since it's a different Cadinae?
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Re-request which, Present!Calto or Future!Calto? For Present!Calto, I dun think so since there wouldn't be any real noticeable differences until that one point int he future, for Future!Calto, that one perhaps but he's dead anyhow so yeah.
*unsure which one this request is...*
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For Calto it doesn't matter. I'm saying Cadina. The character Calto really is.
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This is fiction?! I never would have guessed! I mean, time travel so rarely appears in fiction!
He was born long past, about the same time period as Jay. He was born when the Templars were a high and great society. He has never been to the future because Calto's world was his distant future. Without a third party, it is impossible to change the events transcribed in the earlier post. Even if OUR Cadinae were a completely different one from the future, everything in the request would have had to have come to pass. They came to pass for the one from the future, because he turned into Calto at one point. I've never asked for the exact Cadinae that died. Stop altering my claims. You do that in almost every argument we ever have. All I'm saying is that the past is set in stone, and that the past is set in stone. If Someone comes from the future, they are shaped by your past because it is a part of theirs. I'm not trying to jump to a completly different timeline. A different future, not a different past present and future.
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Everything in the request happened before the current present we are at IC, and it is so set in stone. I don't need to rerequest. Transitive property. One thing equals itself. Since the past is the same for every Cadinae we've seen so far, a rerequest for the current Cadinae could only be a repost of the exact same thing since everything requested took place in the past.
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The past is not the same though,. for a few of them it would be, like the direct parallel timelines to ours. But not for all of them.
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For all accessible ones the past would be the same. He can travel time. He cannot travel to any parallel universe, they must be connected. Saying that it's fiction does not change that. Stop copping out. I've just explained the laws of physics and why what you're saying is not valid, and argued no with the exact same argument as before, just trying to word it differently so people would think it was actually an argument:
Except we have infinite timlines due to multiverse. It can't happen exactly. There yet again would be the slightest of changes. You'd need a direct parallel timeline to the one he's from for him to be exact. And even then it wouldn't be exact. I know how time works. I'm telling you it's more complicated then your little diagram there.
It's done. There could be ones out there with a diferent past, but as is there are infinite Cadinae's out there with the same backstory. I can't access the ones with a different past because they cannot travel to this present because it never happened to them. Any Cadinae I pull out of a hat must have this back story. It is otherwise impossible.
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For all accessible ones the past would be the same. He can travel time. He cannot travel to any parallel universe, they must be connected. Saying that it's fiction does not change that. Stop copping out. I've just explained the laws of physics and why what you're saying is not valid, and argued no with the exact same argument as before, just trying to word it differently so people would think it was actually an argument:
Except we have infinite timlines due to multiverse. It can't happen exactly. There yet again would be the slightest of changes. You'd need a direct parallel timeline to the one he's from for him to be exact. And even then it wouldn't be exact. I know how time works. I'm telling you it's more complicated then your little diagram there.
It's done. There could be ones out there with a diferent past, but as is there are infinite Cadinae's out there with the same backstory. I can't access the ones with a different past because they cannot travel to this present because it never happened to them. Any Cadinae I pull out of a hat must have this back story. It is otherwise impossible.
I think you just answered your own argument. Using the SP universe logic, its impossible. Thus it is impossible for you to bring him back.
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No, just impossible for me to bring him back with an alternate past. Even Hikaru agrees that it's possible to bring him back, she just says it can't be exactly the same. That much is true, but whatever is different must be in territory for us uncharted.
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Holllld up. This guys a Templar correct? Guess what, we've had a Templar timeline hopping before. He has canonically done so in the past to avoid Anarchy's assaults AND to bring in a small cavalry. When you begin challenging what a Templar can and cant do you really must let me know.
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Okay, I will, but I thought you were out.
Here is a basic diagram of parallelism in a timeline _________________________Future a
_______/_________________________Future b
_________________________________/_________________________________Future c
Past \ Present \_______________________________Future d
\ \____________________Future e
\________________________________________________Future f
So basically what you are saying is that any Cadinae can come to the present from any future a-f due to Temploral powers?
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If he chose to. Baring in mind a Templars main priority is their own Timeline, he'd have to have a DAMN good reason for suddenly deciding to reside in ours- ie you'd have to rerequest him pretty much with a different backstory because this timeline's Cadinae is sadly dead.
EDIT: What I should make clear is, if you wanna bring in an Alternate Timeline Cadinae given set precedent and SP's current definition of time(My own) it could technically happen, but he WOULD be different and WOULD need a reason to leave his time to come to the current timeline.
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Oh. So the Cadinae I would need to request is the dead Cadinae.
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No, this one right here- Of this topic? Dead.
Because he was a Templar it is possible for another iteration of him to appear but you'd need a new topic because he's a different person in a sense.
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But the one requested here is the one on Tefilin. The dead guy was the one I didn't request.
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So you used a character not requested? In that case... informal warning.
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Okay, informal warning, but for the record I didn't know it needed requesting.
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NPCs don't need requesting. But an NPC that you're fighting to that extent with? That should have been obvious.
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...Not NPC. It's still the same guy, just one that's lived longer.
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What? I'm sorry, but she's right, any Character you use needs to be requested. You're lucky Hik only gave you an informal warning, mate. Look, here's your best bet. Make a new topic, rerequesting the character, give him a motive to come to this timeline from another one.
Edit: NPCs don't need to be requested, but they should typically be very minor and only used in one or two topics for a certain purpose which doesn't affect the storyline, and they should be weak.
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I get NPC's, but future Cadinae is still Cadinae. I thought, because he's technically the same person, and the backstory and everything in the request is indisputably him either way, I didn't think it would need a request. No distinction had been made until just now, and I brought him into the story in June or July.
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Edit: NPCs don't need to be requested, but they should typically be very minor and only used in one or two topics for a certain purpose which doesn't affect the storyline, and they should be weak.
UNLESS you're NPCing it till the right time for it to become a character. At that point you need to ask staff and ask the peoples topics you post in if it's okay to interfere as an NPC. Like for Harboring the Planet I had to ask Cap if I could make his tree disappear otherwise the NPC would have been too powerful.
You used a Cadinae NPC from another timeline till you were ready to character him in this timeline, right? You should have asked first.
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I didn't know he counted as an NPC until now. And technically he is a part of this timeline aswell. Well, mostly. Of his entire life he is eight years off, and zero when I brought him into play.
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So what?
Approved +1Warn?
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bump
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Its approved by me as far as im concerned.
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He's dead! There's no point in approving.
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Alrighty then...
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Hik, reread the past like three pages. Based on how your argument, he cant be dead. It's impossible.
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In this first one, she claimed he was dead. It was not true, and I explained it, and she gave me a warn point for it. Now she has completely forgotten all of it, and says he's dead.
http://shatteredplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=4037.15
Point one, you are not getting attacked. She's doing her damn job.
Point Two, he's dead plus the warn. Three Day rule, me killing him succeeded, period. Don't like it? You had plenty of time to post, instead you complained.
I can see she's doing her job. She is also attacking me further than necessary. For the past three pages we've been arguing, ans what was the resulto of the argument? A templar can in fact jump timelines, so it is possible for me to bring in a Cadinae with any past whatsoever. I only need to request it. Because I did not request the Cadinae who fought off Sliph, I recieved a warn point.
Even if you succeeded in killing Cadiane in that topic, Cadiane still lives. He's lying on Tefilin, taken by Zarethians. I'm not sure where he is exactly (furrows brow at Zak), but he's alive no matter what. The warn was for me using an unrequested character, and the request is right here. I also had permission to continue using him in Harboring the Planet and Grandeur of an Upcoming Event (dead topic).
OOC: Okay, the fact is there may very well be some stuff wrong with the character, but for all intensive purposes it was approved anyway. I don't think we should null the two topics here but we can re-examine the character's approval to determine the FUTURE of the character, what needs to be changed, etc.
If you say that the Cadinae who was killed was the one that was killed, then all basis for warn is removed because he was in fact approved when I entered him into the topic. Hikaru's denial didn't happen until about two or three pages in. You would also never be able to warn me for Cadinae on Tefilin, because I've only used him as Calto. Calto was approved, and there's no denying that part. Because I have never used any aspects of Cadinae IC with him, there is no basis for a warn.
However, the fact of the matter is Hikaru did have basis for warn, because this request was meant for the Cadinae lying in Zarethian custody. The fact of the matter is that my saying Cadiane is alive has absolutely nothing to do with Harboring the Planet.
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Either approve or continue discussions.
It's you're fucking job. Not to be rude; but ignoring a request shouldn't be an option.
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Approved.
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Thanks! Where does that put me at this point?
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Good question.
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It puts you needing to still make the changes we gave you. -.-
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Also, I get time. In fact, this statement, though it's challenging me, agrees with my argument: It changes it according to how big the change is. Your going back in time and fighting things in a time not your own. It's gonna be pretty fucking changed. Even then... If the change is small, it still branches off into mixed futures. Your future has no affect on the present time or the present times unknown futures.
You guys are yelling me about time, and it's the one thing on this forum that actually makes logical sense it seems (with the exception of a point in creation no matter when it was used existing in that plot for all eternity, that still doesn't make sense to me).
Anyway, I've had an idea that fits most of the qualifications Hikaru placed, and she's been forcing me to spend all my time arguing, and I'm sick of holding it in. I don't care anymore, I;m posting it. And Hikaru, before you say no, know that it was based on an idea of Cap's.
My idea is that it is a ritual, but it requires three things
1. A physical touch
2. Mutual sympathy/empathy between two people
3. One of them to die.
Two people are facing each other. They make eye contact, and touch each others hand. They are both feeling a strong emotion, and both are feeling a sympathy/empathy for each other. One of these people must be on the brink of death. Both must be emotionally tiring. When they are touching, the one about to die, must die. Upon doing this, it could cause a transfer the spirit of the dead one into the live one, but not necessarily into a dominating position. In this case, only the memories would have taken over.
It may need some working on, but it at least works rather than just adhering to a "No, never, give it up, I don't want you to have anything near it," approach.
Tah Dah!
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I take it that means accepted! Yay!
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No it doesn't. It just means we're too damn busy to answer right now.
The conditions are fine all for one thing. If they die you can't have their spirit as it would go automatically to purgatory or be taken by the Reaper...
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Could it have left an imprint?
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No, not without some outstanding reason to have done so, for instance the Genesis King was incredibly strong, an imprint of him was created from released bits of spirit energy which seeped out of K2323 and Kai.
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What if it was only a partial imprint (like only memory)?
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Again, it wouldn't occur naturally without some trigger.
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Like a ritual?
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Yes.
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:D Like the ritual I laid out earlier?
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Oh. My bad.
/me goes to reread.
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Here's the original post where I brought it up
Anyway, I've had an idea that fits most of the qualifications Hikaru placed, and she's been forcing me to spend all my time arguing, and I'm sick of holding it in. I don't care anymore, I;m posting it. And Hikaru, before you say no, know that it was based on an idea of Cap's.
My idea is that it is a ritual, but it requires three things
1. A physical touch
2. Mutual sympathy/empathy between two people
3. One of them to die.
Two people are facing each other. They make eye contact, and touch each others hand. They are both feeling a strong emotion, and both are feeling a sympathy/empathy for each other. One of these people must be on the brink of death. Both must be emotionally tiring. When they are touching, the one about to die, must die. Upon doing this, it could cause a transfer the spirit of the dead one into the live one, but not necessarily into a dominating position. In this case, only the memories would have taken over.
It may need some working on, but it at least works rather than just adhering to a "No, never, give it up, I don't want you to have anything near it," approach.
A little more in depth, but it's a start. I'll go look for any comments attached to it.
EDIT: Oh wow. I feel like a fail! It's on the top of the page!
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This is fine with me.
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Only if it's a partial imprint.
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I'm pretty sure all it needs is memories.
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Fiiiiiine. Not happy about it, but approved.