Author Topic: Calto the Tormented  (Read 10197 times)

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Offline @Pokemon Master Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2012, 01:06:08 AM »
On the subject of memory taking, I DO have a technology that does so(which I reworked for your conditions as well, Hik): http://shatteredplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=1797.msg18070#msg18070
However, of course, mine doesn't actually remove memories from the target, just cripples their brain and blah, but either way(unsure about Nick's character...Eh).
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Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2012, 01:13:55 PM »
Memory Dowloading Replay Alteration Picturing (Mem_Pic)
An intelligence gathering device which takes the memories of an individual and replays said memories. The memories are altered ever so slightly in the subconscious so that the target does not realize the memories are being altered. This is used to gain intelligence. It is a rather controversial type of intellegence gathering tactics, and the long term effects it can have on a target are unknown. Sort of kept secret, the Zarethian Hand neither confirms or denies the use of such a machine on prisoners, leading much of the Zarethian media to speculation.

Hik, it takes the memories and hides the fact that they did by altering the memory slightly.
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2012, 03:02:49 PM »
You're only reading part of his sentence.. you don't quote just part of a sentence and change the meaning...

Anyways. AGAIN. They're part of the Spirit. Adhere to the original conditions K2 and I already gave or nothing.

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Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2012, 03:54:02 PM »
I quoted the entire post Hikaru.
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #54 on: January 23, 2012, 12:18:34 AM »
You quoted the whole line but underlined only part of the sentence in emphasis.

ANYWAYS. I told you what you have to change on the power. Now lets get on with what ELSE is wrong with the request.

You say he's from the future of OUR time that's come back to stop that future from happening... NO. He can be from a future, yes. Mokai; K2's character is from the present gone in time, back and forth. HOWEVER, he cannot be here to stop an event. We are under the multiverse of multiple timelines/universes. KNOWING THE FUTURE CHANGES THE FUTURE. There is NO fixed future. For him to have come back to our time? His future is now no longer the future and if he does something in our time to try to change it, he could probably fuck a bunch of things up trying to prevent something that's been changed already. His future now exists as a mere branch of a timeline and not the omni-timeline of ours anymore. If you're going to use time powers and timeline protection, use it right. Don't make your own rules up for it.

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Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2012, 03:00:26 PM »
Ah, but multiple staff members have challenged you on that point.

Anyway, as far as time goes, I know it's a future but it just feels weird to say it like that, hence why I say the future.

Also, I never said he was here to stop a future from happening.

Also, you say knowing the future changes the future, but changing the future could be a great deal lighter than you emphasize. It could be that the only change is that someone went to Wendey's rather than Burger King, or even that he knew what was coming and wasn't as shocked. A change in the future doesn't mean a completely different world with completely different subject matter. The changes could be minute.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 03:02:16 PM by Sir Nik the I- Prince of Fishies (and Cows) »
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #56 on: January 24, 2012, 12:27:08 AM »
Nik, it DOES NOT matter. You know why? Even if other staff members challenge it. K2 posted the chat he and I had about the conditions of your characters powers being approved. You STILL refuse to agree to those conditions so then the character isn't approved. Doesn't matter what the other staff say when it comes to story and backstory mechanics of the RP. Both K2 and I the founders of the actual story mechanics (how Spirits and Memories work for one... How multiverse works for another -.-) gave you conditions and said your powers wouldn't be able to work that way. As we created the system you're trying to cheat, we do have the right to say that. I came up with the mechanics of Spirits and how they work with memories.

Bottom line. Ritual or nothing. Not one touch and not by accident. End of discussion.

It changes it according to how big the change is. Your going back in time and fighting things in a time not your own. It's gonna be pretty fucking changed. Even then... If the change is small, it still branches off into mixed futures. Your future has no affect on the present time or the present times unknown futures.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 12:28:08 AM by Magister Hikaru »

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Offline K2

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #57 on: January 24, 2012, 12:44:45 PM »
Nik, believe it or not, Hikaru really is trying to work with you here, otherwise she would have done what she did to Nisorin and simply ignore the request after denying it. There really are some flaws in the character that we need to work out. Change the power to fit into current story mechanics, and adjust the biography regarding the timeline.

To put it simply, coming back to the past from the future creates an alternate reality, where there are now more than one versions of the same incident, with different outcomes... Let me try to explain this better.

Think of time as a straight line, from past to future. If someone from the future comes back to the past and changes events, a new, second line branches off from the first, so now both the first line is true AND the second line is true. He would not be changing the course of events that he experienced, he will still have experienced the events even after changing the outcome by coming to the past. But he will change everyone in present time's experience of the events, because SP is thus an alternate reality to his own.

Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #58 on: January 24, 2012, 09:34:35 PM »
Okay, if Hikaru is trying to help, why doesn't she actually help. She tells me no, and stops at a dead end and is completely unable to compromise even when multiple members have proven her to be wrong. She could at least point me in another direction, but instead she holds tight. Take the time thing for example. Two members of staff, yourself included, show her a memory stealing device and instead of loosening her grip, she tightens it. Multiple staff members bring her information, and she disregards it automatically.
No.. His is tech and it isn't taking the memories it's creating an altered illusion to the person to make them think something else.
On the subject of memory taking, I DO have a technology that does so(which I reworked for your conditions as well, Hik): http://shatteredplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=1797.msg18070#msg18070
However, of course, mine doesn't actually remove memories from the target, just cripples their brain and blah, but either way(unsure about Nick's character...Eh).
Memory Dowloading Replay Alteration Picturing (Mem_Pic)
An intelligence gathering device which takes the memories of an individual and replays said memories. The memories are altered ever so slightly in the subconscious so that the target does not realize the memories are being altered. This is used to gain intelligence. It is a rather controversial type of intellegence gathering tactics, and the long term effects it can have on a target are unknown. Sort of kept secret, the Zarethian Hand neither confirms or denies the use of such a machine on prisoners, leading much of the Zarethian media to speculation.

Hik, it takes the memories and hides the fact that they did by altering the memory slightly.
You're only reading part of his sentence.. you don't quote just part of a sentence and change the meaning...

Anyways. AGAIN. They're part of the Spirit. Adhere to the original conditions K2 and I already gave or nothing.

Also, I get time. In fact, this statement, though it's challenging me, agrees with my argument:
It changes it according to how big the change is. Your going back in time and fighting things in a time not your own. It's gonna be pretty fucking changed. Even then... If the change is small, it still branches off into mixed futures. Your future has no affect on the present time or the present times unknown futures.
You guys are yelling me about time, and it's the one thing on this forum that actually makes logical sense it seems (with the exception of a point in creation no matter when it was used existing in that plot for all eternity, that still doesn't make sense to me).

Anyway, I've had an idea that fits most of the qualifications Hikaru placed, and she's been forcing me to spend all my time arguing, and I'm sick of holding it in. I don't care anymore, I;m posting it. And Hikaru, before you say no, know that it was based on an idea of Cap's.

My idea is that it is a ritual, but it requires three things
1. A physical touch
2. Mutual sympathy/empathy between two people
3. One of them to die.
Two people are facing each other. They make eye contact, and touch each others hand. They are both feeling a strong emotion, and both are feeling a sympathy/empathy for each other. One of these people must be on the brink of death. Both must be emotionally tiring. When they are touching, the one about to die, must die. Upon doing this, it could cause a transfer the spirit of the dead one into the live one, but not necessarily into a dominating position. In this case, only the memories would have taken over.

It may need some working on, but it at least works rather than just adhering to a "No, never, give it up, I don't want you to have anything near it," approach.
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2012, 11:09:03 PM »
The conditions are fine all for one thing. If they die you can't have their spirit as it would go automatically to purgatory or be taken by the Reaper...

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Offline Beware Ye Who Enter Here

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #60 on: January 25, 2012, 04:34:32 PM »
Reaperz. :P
There is only so much pain that can be taken before the bonds and chains of sanity are forsaken
It is in these lonesome times that we reach towards the light sublime
And from that light we pull the resolution of our time
To begin the end and start anew

Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #61 on: January 25, 2012, 08:33:31 PM »
What if the mesh happened on the brink of death, but if the person didn't die it would autocorrect and put the spirits back in order?
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #62 on: February 01, 2012, 01:02:52 PM »
Bump
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  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #63 on: February 01, 2012, 11:11:26 PM »
He's dead. It doesn't really matter if we approve him or not anymore.

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Offline K2

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2012, 10:33:31 AM »
True.

Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2012, 11:53:15 AM »
Not true. That was him from the (I'm sorry a) future.

And either way, he is still alive in the present, he is just Calto Rubian.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 12:06:05 PM by Sir Nik the I- Prince of Fishies (and Cows) »
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2012, 04:39:02 PM »
Umm what? Do you still not know how time works?

Maybe one Calto is a Templar. But that one died. How just because he was a Templar in one timeline doesn't mean all of his alternate selves are going to be templars. Maybe in a parallel timeline, yes. But all of them? No. He could have taken a different path in life that made him a janitor for the South for all we know. Or another one where he's a Templar but didn't even come across Calto.

You're wanting to bring him back to life through an alternate timeline. But not every alternate timeline is going to bring him back they way you want him. Even if he's brought back that way. There will be SOMETHING different whether it's from a change in his favorite foods or a decrease in power. It'd be something.

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Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2012, 06:17:14 PM »
No Hikaru, this time you don't understand how time works.

Cadinae's life begun at his birth. Fairly obvious, but let's go into it a bit further, like, what race was he born? Templar. As Jeebus said, you can either be born a Templar, or be created a Templar. As young Cadinae grew up, he aspired to be a great Templar investigator, and ended up under the rank (or class, not sure which) of Denutemp. After a while, he lost a friend and was emotionally unstable. He traveled back in time following up on a lead, was captured, experimented on, but finally escaped back forward in time. The fact that it could be totally different aside, he went far to far in time. He went about ten years earlier than current time IC, and landed next to Calto at the time of Calto's greatest (and fatal) torment spike. It was there that he accidentally switched spots with Calto, not knowing so himself. *Two years later, he became a crew member for the New Gia mission, but he had a torment spike and teleported the ship away. The ship crashed on Tefilin (8 years later due to the post event time jump). Cadinae was just attended to by Zarethians while lying on the beach unconscious.

Here is a basic diagram of parallelism in a timeline     _________________________Future a
                                                                    _______/_________________________Future b
_________________________________/_________________________________Future c
Past                          \                    Present    \_______________________________Future d
                                   \                                                        \____________________Future e
                                     \________________________________________________Future f

Using time travel you could not jump from the world of future a to e without going back to the present where they split off, which would be where some event or another altered its coarse. An event is required to change the coarse of history. If two things happen exactly the same way they will have exactly the same results. Now you'd be right in saying that the slightest variable can change things drastically, but when I say, exactly, I mean exactly. Transitive Property states that one thing is equal to itself. While Future a and Future c are actually on different timelines, they have the same events from the past to present. When Cadinae came from the future in recent topics he created an event that changed the future. Lets sat that it was the first event on the timeline. Had he not shone up, the future that would have progressed would be future c. However Cadinae, who is from future c, did come and change the future. Now the choice to create future f lies in our past. Cadinae did not travel to our past, so Cadinae could not have created this future variant of himself.

What does this all mean you might ask? It means that you cannot change a past event by acting in the future. I'm sorry Ocarina of Time fans, but it's true. The past is set in stone unless it becomes the present. You can make it the present by time traveling to it. However, what happened before the moment you arrive in the past, suddenly becomes the past, and cannot be changed unless you travel to it. The Cadinae who was fighting for Helios just now only traveled to our current present, so everything I outlined about Cadinae's past in the beginning of this post cannot have been changed by future Cadinae's travel to the present. Anything that hasn't happened yet IC, however, may not have happened to the Cadinae that just appeared to save Helios.

Basically, no matter what future Cadinae just did, he could not have changed anything that happened before his arrival indicated by the *.

Also, none of this changes that there is a present day Cadinae Rybic lying the Zarethian main world unconscious, and thinking he's Calto Rubian.
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

  (__)                           ______________/////////////////\
^0  0^------- .__        /_"' // ___________///////////////////
  /|  |   /___\  \    *      '^/    \\\       \\\\\\\\\\\\/
 /OO \ \       / /           <>)

Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2012, 06:22:05 PM »
Except we have infinite timlines due to multiverse. It can't happen exactly. There yet again would be the slightest of changes. You'd need a direct parllel timeline to the one he's from for him to be exact. And even then it wouldn't be exact. I know how time works. I'm telling you it's more complicated then your little diagram there.

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Offline Ragnar the Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2012, 06:45:37 PM »
Yeah, I know that! Do you really think there's room for a full diagram in a post? No. I had to simplify it, otherwise it wouldn't even be understandable.

Yes, there would be changes, but none could happen before the point of changing, the present. What I said in paragraph 2 is set in stone due to the fact that present day Cadinae is still alive (And never showed up in the topic where Cadinae fought off the plant).

Yes, there is a multiverse, but Cadinae came from an alternate future, not an alternate past present and future, just an alternate future.

If you want to keep arguing, if you really think the Transitive property (That one thing is congruent to itself) is false, then by all means, argue against it. However if you've argued that every other founding piece of mathematics and physics by the end of this, things may go downhill for you quite fast.
Characters: Reykjavik (Reyky) Keflavik   Naralia Arnigtaliila   Tessitura Reprise   Salgren Keflavik   Alexander Damian Johnson   Laniq   Calto Rubian   William Benesque   Cadinae Rybic   K   Zaigen Yevitt

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Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2012, 06:51:29 PM »
You forget that this is fiction, Nik. We subscribe to theories, quantum theories, time theories, etc. Nothing is ever exact as the IRL mechanics. -.-

And I'm saying. Even if the Cadinae of OUR world is alive. His past could be completely different from the one you brought back from the future.

Where is the original Cadinae born? A future? Then there could be a timeline where he's born in the past. Infinite possiblities means you can't get the exact Cadinae that died.

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Offline @Pokemon Master Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2012, 07:06:28 PM »
I think what Nik's saying is that they aren't the exact same, or even by a longshot, but the point where Future!Calto/whichever branches off still would have yet to come for Present!Calto/Whichever. Up until that point in the future, they would still be the same. That point just hasn't come yet.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 07:06:50 PM by @Pokemon Master Red »
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Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2012, 07:09:20 PM »
Event then.. Wouldn't he have to re-request it since it's a different Cadinae?

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Offline @Pokemon Master Red

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2012, 07:11:59 PM »
Re-request which, Present!Calto or Future!Calto? For Present!Calto, I dun think so since there wouldn't be any real noticeable differences until that one point int he future, for Future!Calto, that one perhaps but he's dead anyhow so yeah.
*unsure which one this request is...*
Do you have what it takes to change your destiny, to defy FATE itself?
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Offline Queen Bright

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Re: Calto the Tormented
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2012, 07:14:53 PM »
For Calto it doesn't matter. I'm saying Cadina. The character Calto really is.

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Characters (In-Play):     Kurai Kuro  Rev  Gen  Rin    Hikari  Relle   Fido  Gwyn(Satya
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Asura: Records of Time
Rev & Gen: City of Lus
 Gryphon Sages - Aurum