Hik's System

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Now, this isnt't a staff topic or anything but after looking through the discussion about the Magisters... a discussion that has gone on for a long, long time and has been disapearing periodically.... I think it may be time to streamline or rework Hikaru's system of existance or whatever its called. I personally think its too complicated and if I was a new player it would send me away from the site... And we already have an issue regarding involving new players (if they actually spend more then a day on the site and make something).
No offense, Hik, but though you and apparently Gaser understood it, you made it and Gaser is extremely intelligent and likely helped out.

[Kalorph_]

Voteded.

[Queen Bright]

..It's not that hard to understand, I simplified it in about 5 sentences for Jeebus on the IRC a while back.

And as I told Yuki, other than in certain requests like Magisters the normal member doesn't need to know it. Just because Magic is existence doesn't mean one has to post converting it as it's already automatically converted.
The everyday member is fine staying completely ignorant.

And as told to Orph it's not MY system, it's the sites system as I ASKED all staff at the time before implementing it.

[Kalorph_]

Then we're having a SITE vote for the SITE system to see if the SITE wants otherwise Hikaru.

[Queen Bright]

It's grounded into the story now Orph. You change it you have to rewrite. And I DEMAND the vote be held until Gaser gets back or the inevitable.

[Kalorph_]

Gaser has been gone for a year; he's no longer a vital or even a contributing part of this site. Sorry Hik, but I don't believe we should wait for someone who's been gone FOR that long. It's stupid.

[Queen Bright]

When he MIGHT be coming back this week? No IT IS NOT stupid. Especially since he helped design the damn system you want to change. If you're going to make us change it we should get a chance to help with those changes. HIM INCLUDED.

[Ghost]

And as I told Yuki, other than in certain requests like Magisters the normal member doesn't need to know it. Just because Magic is existence doesn't mean one has to post converting it as it's already automatically converted.
The everyday member is fine staying completely ignorant.

But other than that, you complained about the conversion itself. Saying Magic in fact was not energy, making every single piece of magic "without energy" null in the realistic world. There was no science involved. Because this a "science fiction" forum, you do require science involved for things like this. Youre reasoning of energy=/=magic is so wrong.

[Queen Bright]

And as I told Yuki, other than in certain requests like Magisters the normal member doesn't need to know it. Just because Magic is existence doesn't mean one has to post converting it as it's already automatically converted.
The everyday member is fine staying completely ignorant.

But other than that, you complained about the conversion itself. Saying Magic in fact was not energy, making every single piece of magic "without energy" null in the realistic world. There was no science involved. Because this a "science fiction" forum, you do require science involved for things like this. Youre reasoning of energy=/=magic is so wrong.

It was Fantasy before it was Sci-Fi. the Sci-fi elements were added when it became GE. The Magic and system is based off the OK and thus holds fantasy elements above the Sci-Fi elements. Aka Magic is the impossible, magic does not adhere to the laws of phsyics and is not limited to science.

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

While I like Gaser, there is no garuantee that he'll be back and you'd be effectively stalling any change. Even if its written into the story, well, we can change that to make it simpler or something. Its just food for thought, and if you have it simplified in the IRC then it may be smart to put a similar simplification in the original topic. Either way, please, its a place to vote and discuss, I'd rather it not be another magisters topic.

[Capxeno]

Its a unique and easy to understand system. If you cannot understand it, you do not have the required intelligence to play by post roleplay anything beyond simple social highschool single single topic roleplays with lots of yoai.

It is the system, and had you remained in the system in terms of magic you wouldn't have to explain as much, however no need to change and any change because its part of the story is metagaming.


Your magisters don't make sense in regards to this roleplay, and wouldn't be able to do more than throw simple, uncomplicated balls of energy as attacks. You do not have anything within how you are saying they work that gives them the power or ability to do anything more complicated.

[Queen Bright]

Okay maybe not 5lines, but it still didn't show up as 'complicated' as you all make it seem like.

[17:42] <&Hikaru> Jeebus is the magic chart topic confusing to you?
[17:42] <&Jeebus> Magic chart topic?
[17:42] <&Jeebus> What?
[17:43] <&Hikaru> The Guide to Reality one
[17:43] <&Jeebus> Oh
[17:43] <&Jeebus> Kinda
[17:43] <&Jeebus> Could do with a little simplifying
[17:43] <&Hikaru> In what areas?
[17:44] <&Hikaru> It's also unfinished. Notice how many things on the outline aren't typed.
[17:44] <&Jeebus> Well, I dont understand the whole converting existence into magic thing
[17:45] <&Jeebus> Primarily because I dont get the whole states of existence thing we have going on
[17:46] <&Hikaru> They're two different things... Classes of Existence is different from Converting Existence. It's using Existence in more than one definition of the word.
[17:53] == K2323 [ShatteredP@K2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[17:54] <&Hikaru> For the guide.. Existence can be thought of in two different types Corporeal and Ethereal (Physical and Spiritual). Corporeal is the physical, what you can touch, see, shape, and manipulate physically. Such as the ground, the dimensions, etc. Ethereal is the the spiritual, your spirit, magic, forces, the things you can't always see unless you're trained to see it and have to manipulate on a more spiritual level.
[17:54] <&Hikaru> Ethereal is where we get magic from. In its purest form Ethereal is is incapable of being manipulated, but it can be converted. Through natural creational means it becomes Astral (What spirits are made of as well as the Astral Plane. Through racial, training, focus, and magical prowess it becomes magic, pure raw magic. Through Technological means it can become a Technological existence.
[17:55] <&Jeebus> I
[17:55] <&Hikaru> That last one doesn't mean all technology. doesn't mean all technology though, just certain tech energies that act more like magic but aren't magic. Maybe it should be Artificial Existence instead... whatever
[17:55] <&Jeebus> Artificial Existence works I guess
[17:55] <&Jeebus> But like
[17:56] <&Jeebus> Technology hasnt always existed
[17:56] <&Hikaru> I just said it didn't mean all technology
[17:56] <&Hikaru> A higher technology that still can't be called magic? Gaser was behind that one more so I can't completely explain what it is.
[17:58] <&Hikaru> But I think the chart is interesting. It makes us more unique in how we handle magic rather than your normal everyday fantasy sources of pact with demons/angels/, some random stuff, some other dimension you access, etc.
[17:58] <&Hikaru> What other fiction uses the existence of reality its self?
[17:59] <&Hikaru> Anyways. Magic is magic, it can be converted or formed into other forms, but for basic magic users it really has no lower tier.
[18:00] <&Hikaru> Astral on the other hand, becomes Sentience and non-sentience (Consciousness and nonconsciousness) Through again, nature/creation, etc.
[18:00] <&Hikaru> These exist ON THE ASTRAL PLANE
[18:00] <&Hikaru> Sentience/Consciousness a persons own life, spirit. Can then be converted by the person in question OUT of the Astral plane TO the Physical Plane into a more harmful form
[18:01] <&Hikaru> That is Spirit Energy, but if they use all of themselves up they die. (Unless they found ways around it. *cough*mytechnique*cough*
[18:01] <&Hikaru> Spirit Energy on the Astral Plane is harmless. Ghost throwing a ghost at one another. Converting it to the Physical Plane is what turns it into something akin to magic and harmful
[18:01] <&Hikaru> But with prices.
[18:02] <&Hikaru> Non-sentience on the other hand in this world converts to Psi.
[18:02] <&Hikaru> Simplified enough?
[18:05] <&Hikaru> Oh right. Spirit Energy will replenish over time as it feeds on magic, but its usually a slow process. A few hours to a day depending on how much a person used of themselves.
[18:06] <&Hikaru> And for AM Fields, they break the Magic back into Ethereal Existence and prevent it from being converted back by the magic user, that's why they're absolute on any magic.
[18:07] <Zak> Ah
[18:08] <&Hikaru> I'm GUESSING an AAM field makes the AM Field stop working and lets it be reconverted.. I don't know, I didn't event the stuff. I'm just filling in how they work.
[18:08] <&Hikaru> *invent

There simplified. You were in the chat too Zak, ironic. -.-

[Ghost]

And as I told Yuki, other than in certain requests like Magisters the normal member doesn't need to know it. Just because Magic is existence doesn't mean one has to post converting it as it's already automatically converted.
The everyday member is fine staying completely ignorant.

But other than that, you complained about the conversion itself. Saying Magic in fact was not energy, making every single piece of magic "without energy" null in the realistic world. There was no science involved. Because this a "science fiction" forum, you do require science involved for things like this. Youre reasoning of energy=/=magic is so wrong.

It was Fantasy before it was Sci-Fi. the Sci-fi elements were added when it became GE. The Magic and system is based off the OK and thus holds fantasy elements above the Sci-Fi elements. Aka Magic is the impossible, magic does not adhere to the laws of phsyics and is not limited to science.

I don't care, I prefer a board with proper science

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Hik, though I may have been on, that hardly means I was paying attention.
Cap: Sorry, if I don't apparently have the intelligence to comprehend the bloody system but I'd like you to not insult those who don't find the system quite as easy to understand in its original format as you do.

[Queen Bright]

And as I told Yuki, other than in certain requests like Magisters the normal member doesn't need to know it. Just because Magic is existence doesn't mean one has to post converting it as it's already automatically converted.
The everyday member is fine staying completely ignorant.

But other than that, you complained about the conversion itself. Saying Magic in fact was not energy, making every single piece of magic "without energy" null in the realistic world. There was no science involved. Because this a "science fiction" forum, you do require science involved for things like this. Youre reasoning of energy=/=magic is so wrong.

It was Fantasy before it was Sci-Fi. the Sci-fi elements were added when it became GE. The Magic and system is based off the OK and thus holds fantasy elements above the Sci-Fi elements. Aka Magic is the impossible, magic does not adhere to the laws of phsyics and is not limited to science.

I don't care, I prefer a board with proper science

We had that debate back in the beginning of SP... most voted to keep magic not limited as it would be ruining what SP started on.

[King Jeebus]

Keep it civil or warnings will be handed out. This is for everyone
I would also like to make clear that this isnt a staff vote, this is a member wanting to know if others find the magic system not to their liking so dont bite his damn head off.

[Capxeno]

Hik, though I may have been on, that hardly means I was paying attention.
Cap: Sorry, if I don't apparently have the intelligence to comprehend the bloody system but I'd like you to not insult those who don't find the system quite as easy to understand in its original format as you do.

Actually, that was me complimenting you. You have every ability to understand it, you are an intelligent individual and thus should you engage your brain you will understand it. My apologies if I have little sympathy for an kind of plan that panders to those who have the intelligence and are choosing not to use it.

Better yet, those who do not should be weeded out anyway this kind of system prevent those whose intellectual capability are not on par with what is require to roleplay properly do not stick around and become akin to cancer on the site. They are either too intimated to stay or do not become powerful do to those who do understand the system being able to undermine them easily.

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Cap, its not simply that they can't understand it so much as its intimidating to have something of that size to have to deal with. Like I said, if I was a new player, that would send me away from the site. And, as I said before, I find it hard to comprehend the system and thus, I would certainly prefer it were easier to understand.

[Ghost]

And as I told Yuki, other than in certain requests like Magisters the normal member doesn't need to know it. Just because Magic is existence doesn't mean one has to post converting it as it's already automatically converted.
The everyday member is fine staying completely ignorant.

But other than that, you complained about the conversion itself. Saying Magic in fact was not energy, making every single piece of magic "without energy" null in the realistic world. There was no science involved. Because this a "science fiction" forum, you do require science involved for things like this. Youre reasoning of energy=/=magic is so wrong.

It was Fantasy before it was Sci-Fi. the Sci-fi elements were added when it became GE. The Magic and system is based off the OK and thus holds fantasy elements above the Sci-Fi elements. Aka Magic is the impossible, magic does not adhere to the laws of phsyics and is not limited to science.

I don't care, I prefer a board with proper science

We had that debate back in the beginning of SP... most voted to keep magic not limited as it would be ruining what SP started on.

I wasn't here during then

[Capxeno]

Cap, its not simply that they can't understand it so much as its intimidating to have something of that size to have to deal with. Like I said, if I was a new player, that would send me away from the site. And, as I said before, I find it hard to comprehend the system and thus, I would certainly prefer it were easier to understand.

Magic shouldn't be easy to understand. Honestly, I want it to be even more complex, however the current extremely simple system is the limit of simplicity I am willing to deal with.

[Nisorin]

I think the system is fine as it is, what I believe needs to be simplified is the explanation of it. Keep the mechanics as they are, just explain it in a way that is easier to understand. Most new members aren't going to spend a day or two trying to understand things before jumping in. Most of them, experienced or not, are going to read a bit of the plot, check out the races/empires, and jump in, regardless of intelligence level.

The main problem is we're dealing with abstracts. Everyone has a different idea of what 'Existence' is, and yet we use it so much that of course it's going to cause misunderstandings. The second biggest problem is that we're doing a poor job of explaining a relatively simple system. It's not the system that is flawed, but the way we describe it.

[@Pokemon Master Red]

I agree with Nis, the system for magic itself is fine. However, a lot of the wording could be changed and it could stand to be made easier to be understood.

[Beware Ye Who Enter Here]

Yeah, I agree. It would solve a lot of my issues with it.

[K2]

I think the system is fine as it is, what I believe needs to be simplified is the explanation of it. Keep the mechanics as they are, just explain it in a way that is easier to understand. Most new members aren't going to spend a day or two trying to understand things before jumping in. Most of them, experienced or not, are going to read a bit of the plot, check out the races/empires, and jump in, regardless of intelligence level.

The main problem is we're dealing with abstracts. Everyone has a different idea of what 'Existence' is, and yet we use it so much that of course it's going to cause misunderstandings. The second biggest problem is that we're doing a poor job of explaining a relatively simple system. It's not the system that is flawed, but the way we describe it.

This.

[Logan]

I personally don't agree with some of the way magic is used. I mean Hikaru character has so many safe guards from being killed it isn't funny. Hell if we had a war none of us would have to fight. We just send her in head first and win.