Author Topic: OOC: Infection (Read 3495 times)

K2 · « **on:** January 19, 2013, 07:28:14 PM »

I thought we agreed that taking over the core itself is godmoding.

Gaserlake · « **Reply #1 on:** January 21, 2013, 02:22:27 AM »

I never agreed to that. If something can happen once, it can happen again. I see no reason why it can't happen. The ASF was able to do it, so so can the Virus. Sure, the ASF didn't control the core, but it was able to overwhelm it. There would need to be an IC reason why it is godmodding, and it's be too late for that to happen. Taking over the core itself is not godmodding. Sure, you can say that the point is is that I CAN take over the positive side of the dimensional plane, but I'm not going to do that. Taking over the positive side of the dimensional plane is godmodding, but not taking over the core. Those are two different things. Plus, the ASF flooded every single dimension with AME, but nobody complained. I'm not doing anything with any dimension, except for the Outerverse, yet you're complaining.

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #2 on:** January 21, 2013, 07:09:19 AM »

It doesn't matter if YOU agreed to it. WE (The Staff) made a judgement call. Taking over the Core of the OV is considered GMing now that a closer look into the matter has been conducted. You don't have to like our decision, but you do need to respect it. Gameplay regulation and Policy can change established canon.

Gaserlake · « **Reply #3 on:** January 21, 2013, 01:58:13 PM »

Lyoko222, you need to respect non-staff members, as well as their opinions. Similar to what you said, you don't have to like my opinion, but you do need to respect it. It does NOT matter if there are different staff members. Just because you are a staff member, it does NOT mean you can walk over non-staff members. Non-staff members deserve respect, too. We are supposed to be a community of people working together, here, no matter if you are a staff member, and I am not. We are still people. My inferiority in terms of powers over this site should make no difference. Your arrogance disgusts and worries me.

There would need to be an IC reason, if anything, of why taking over the Outerverse is impossible, and therefore godmodding. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Nisorin · « **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:25:40 PM »

The IC reason would be that the OV produces and uses so much energy, of a type that quite simply eclipses any currently used energy in the game, that even the Virus' current attempts would be like trying to use a chisel to take down a mountain.

EDIT: I'd like to add that I was never informed about the staff discussion, though I do agree.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:48:14 PM »

You guys are forgetting it's happened already when the ASF took it. They took the core (how else did they spread Anti-magic throughout the entire mortal dimension?) To say it doesn't work now makes a plot hole of why the hell it was able to happen then.

And if you null it happening then, you null everything that happened because of it...

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2013, 04:57:47 PM »

Once again. Gameplay Regulation allows us to make these changes. If something comes up where a person leaves the site, something that was once canon is now considered GMing because of the potential harm it can do to the overall gameplay, or anything in between, the canon can be changed. Maybe the OV changed itself, adapted to protect itself, it doesnt matter the IC reason for now. All that matters is that the majority of players dont seem to want this. Therefore, it will not happen. If you can get the majority of members to say otherwise, my judgement stands.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2013, 05:00:31 PM »

..It matters for people that actually follow the story. Plot holes are annoying... AT LEAST come up with an IC reason as to why it suddenly changed. Saying it doesn't work for OOC reasons now is a form of metagaming...

Gaserlake · « **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2013, 05:17:34 PM »

Following what you said, Lyoko222, people do not have to like what is happening, but they do have to respect it. Why is it considered godmodding in the first place? If it isn't godmodding, then it won't matter if the majority doesn't like it. If I destroy a planet without breaking any rule, it wouldn't matter if the majority doesn't like it, because it's legal. They would just have to respect it.

What Hikaru said is true: if you change things IC because you don't like it OOC, it is metagaming, which brings me back to my previous point, which is that it wouldn't matter if the majority doesn't like it. They can't simply change it just because they don't like it OOC.

There is no potential harm if the Virus vanishes to me leaving the website. The Outerverse would simply have no owner, and it would not cause harm to the Outerverse, or the dimensions the Outerverse powers, in any way.

What does the relevant gameplay regulation state, anyway?

An IC reason is relevant and vital to the reason why controlling the core doesn't work. If you change it based upon OOC reasons, it'll be metagaming.

Give me a valid reason why controlling the core of the Outerverse is godmodding, and any valid reason cannot be OOC. No, saying that the potential to infect all of the dimensions on the positive side of the plane is not a valid reason, as it is an OOC reason.

@Pokemon Master Red · « **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2013, 06:32:23 PM »

*was not informed about this staff agreement either, it should be noted*

While I do agree that the core should not be controllable(as, from what I understand, that basically gives you control over everything without any real way to fight back), it would've been nice to be included in this sort of decision. Y'know. Seeing as its a Staff one.

Alright. In any case. Both sides right now have valid points...On the one hand, it IS godmodding to control the Core if that gives you basically the ability to take over all dimensions on the positive plane and blah(it should be said that this may need to be explained to me a little better, because Im mostly making a guess as to its capabilities on this front; also, it doesn't matter whether this reason is IC or OOC, given that godmodding itself is a OOC concept pertaining to things happening IC(one could make a argument that the prohibition on Godmodding itself is metagaming. No that doesn't mean I'd be willing to allow Godmodding before anyone even says it '>>)...If something is overpowered and has the capability to, in the case of this forum, take over basically everything without the ability to defend against it in basically any way, its godmodding). On the other hand, the opposite side is correct in that if this has happened before there should be a reason now why this is impossible. Im not sure WHY it was allowed before to begin with, but there should be a reason given as to why its no longer possible. Honestly speaking I really dont care about whether its metagaming or not, that doesn't matter(to me, I will admit, others may in fact feel different and I respect that), but for the sake of a coherent narrative we will still need a valid reason for why its no longer possible.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2013, 07:10:14 PM »

[15:04] <Hikaru> You know... I created the OV. Just like K2 created South...
[15:04] <Hikaru> And Zai created False Heaven >.>
[15:06] <Agwu> so?
[15:06] <Hikaru> Kinda gives me rights to fill in the blanks of how it works just like K2 was never overruled on how South and such worked..

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2013, 08:27:03 PM »

Once again. Taking over a planet, and an entire side of a dimensional plane are 2 very different things. One drastically affect gameplay. The other does. Now i didnt have a say last time it happened, but i do now. If i were to pick between an action that is GMing or an action that is Metagaming, id pick the latter. Red also brought up a valid point (sorry for not including you, but it was on the IRC). If we really want to argue semantics, then we can say that not allowing GMing is Metagaming. And that any other OOC rules for the game we have is Metagaming. But you know what? They are there for a purpose. So far, not very many people are agreeing with the take over. So i will say this once more. Get the majority on your side, or take what we've decided.

Zero · « **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2013, 08:36:25 PM »

I am siding with Lyoko, and K2 and Hiro on this.

Queen Bright · « **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2013, 08:39:03 PM »

Quote from: Zero on January 21, 2013, 08:36:25 PM

I am siding with Lyoko, and K2 and Hiro on this.

Your opinion doesn't count >.> You'd side with a garbage can if it meant your planets weren't threatened.

Anyways... I JUST WANT AN IC REASON as to why it works now but it doesn't. How fucking hard is it to come up with that so we don't have plot holes? Seriously?

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2013, 08:58:01 PM »

Quote from: Hikaru on January 21, 2013, 08:39:03 PM

Quote from: Zero on January 21, 2013, 08:36:25 PM
I am siding with Lyoko, and K2 and Hiro on this.

Your opinion doesn't count >.> You'd side with a garbage can if it meant your planets weren't threatened.

Anyways... I JUST WANT AN IC REASON as to why it works now but it doesn't. How fucking hard is it to come up with that so we don't have plot holes? Seriously?

Its not something that we have to deal with at this moment. We are simpyl saying that i cannot and will not happen. The IC reason will follow suit in short time.

Gaserlake · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2013, 11:09:16 PM »

You haven't even answered one of my questions, which makes me question your integrity, Lyoko.

Godmodding is also an IC thing, but an OOC concept. If it's godmodding, then there is an IC reason. There is a difference between godmodding, and being unbeatable in a particular situation. Godmodding is when you defeat someone when you shouldn't, and the latter is when you defeat someone while you are able to. It's like saying that it's godmodding to kill a baby while you have a gun. No. In that instance, you would be unbeatable in that particular situation. There are IC reasons to OOC rules.

Hikaru went into the core of the Outerverse to get the Revelations spell book. If you are to make it godmodding, then you are basically making a time machine and going back to the past to make it not happen in the first place, which causes a LOT of change in history.

In other words, Lyoko, you are being malicious, and taking over the website for your own personal benefit. You said it yourself that you would rather do OOC things to control IC things, as you said that you would rather metagame than godmode. You are a police officer that would shoot a peaceful protester in the head. In that aspect, you are worse than Hikaru. I'm only comparing Hikaru to this, because you compare your actions to Hikaru to justify yourself and your actions. I am NOT going to deal with this. I am officially quitting Shattered Planes. It does not matter to me what you do to my characters, ships, technology, or races.

Admiral Regis Hermitage · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2013, 11:21:52 PM »

I hardly see how i benefit from this situation, but whatever Gaser. Justify this however you like, but people agree with the fact that taking the OV has a large potential to disrupt gameplay. Its the same reason why games have Admins who intervene when something happens. An example of this happening on an MMO, was when the Falador Massacre happened in RS a few years back. It disrupted gameplay for a lot of players, and Administration came in. Something that they normally wont do.

So, please make my day. I am begging you to quit because the fact that you're angry means that i win. Thank you.

You are the only one who seems to have a problem this big with me. Im arbitrating the situation because i know if i dont, You and Hik will argue with the rest of the site because something isnt going your way.

UnStellar · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2013, 12:12:26 AM »

SP isn't and has never been a democracy. Non-staff decisions are irrelevant.

Sorry to backseat mod but I thought it warranted saying. Lyokos right. Respect has to be given to be earned Hitoper.

Gaserlake · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2013, 02:30:42 AM »

Non-staff opinions are not irrelevant.

It goes both ways, Unstellar. My respect for him has to be earned.

Lyoko and I negotiated, and I've agreed to stay on SP.

K2 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2013, 03:32:46 PM »

For the record, we ALWAYS calculate non-staff opinions in our decision, but ultimately we do what we feel is best for the board, and thus, best for the members. We have all talked and agreed that we need to be a bit more strict on godmoding. This is one of those times when we need to be stricter than we were one or two years ago. As for an IC reason for the change, well, the embodiments obviously would have had to put in certain defences on the OV and Plex. However; when the ASF used the Outerverse before, the embodiments were at war, and it's arguable that whatever defends the two cores was temporarily disabled by the Rebel Embodiments at the time, because they were going to unlock Plex.

Gaserlake · « **Reply #20 on:** February 06, 2013, 02:20:51 PM »

Unless we scrap the part that the Virus is subgrounded, the Virus is impervious to the embodiments' forces. I would prefer to have another IC reason, but if we can't find an IC reason, I'll agree with removing the subgrounded part of the Virus.

Nisorin · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2013, 08:14:48 PM »

Just curious, how would the Virus have become Subgrounded anyway?

K2 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2013, 02:48:19 PM »

From what I understand Subgrounded just means that the embodiments themselves can't directly control the Subgrounded. Not that the Subgrounded are immune from anything the Embodiments do. The Virus still has to live in time, is effected by it, etc. and can still be stopped. There's no reason defences built by the embodiments would be excluded.

Gaserlake · « **Reply #23 on:** February 13, 2013, 01:43:26 AM »

Nisorin, that's one why I'm thinking of scrapping it. I have my reason for it, but I want to keep it to myself.

K2, you can't really control any character that you don't own, otherwise it's godmodding, unless you have some mind-control, or some other form of physical control. From what I understand, embodiments can influence the Virus if it doesn't involve any forces of the embodiments. Sure, time affects the Virus, but only naturally. Asura, for example, cannot age the Virus to death. Perhaps it can age the Virus to death with magic, but not with time itself. However, the Virus does get older with each passing second.

K2 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 14, 2013, 03:33:43 PM »

But Asura is time itself.